Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1092575 Posts in 72179 Topics- by 19440 Members - Latest Member: drater421
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumCreation and PerformanceMusical Miscellany(Moderators: JP, BGuttman) James Levine, students, festivals
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: James Levine, students, festivals  (Read 3511 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6648

View Profile
« on: Dec 07, 2017, 09:41AM »

In addition to the problem of harassment in music schools, it's starting to look like these festival orchestras made up of high-achieving young players taught by high-ranking musicians are basically hunting grounds for horny faculty and staff

Quote
I am a former member (male, violinist) of the Verbier Festival Orchestra. I was playing concertmaster for one of the concerts at Verbier, and James Levine asked me to come to the conductor’s room to discuss bowings, etc. after a rehearsal. At the end of this short conversation, he invited me to his accommodations later that evening for a drink. (This was in the presence of his brother Tom, who usually accompanied the Maestro everywhere.) Upon arriving, however, I was asked to come to his room. Aware of the rumors, I declined and politely said that I had to go to a chamber music rehearsal. I later mentioned this to Martin Engstroem, who brushed it aside and said “That’s just Jimmy being Jimmy.” Anyhow, the entire incident made me very uncomfortable, and Levine pretty much ignored me for the remainder of his time at Verbier. I am aware of no precautions that were taken by Martin Engstroem or anyone at the Verbier Festival to safeguard orchestra members.

Quote
I am a Verbier alumnus, and this statement [by the Verbier Festival, denying any problems] is rich with hypocrisy and untruth, made by someone who publicly dated a fellow Verbier student. Not only did the Festival not warn us of the dangers of sexual interactions with conductors, coaches or staff, they fully engaged in these behaviors themselves and set up frequent extravagant parties in Verbier and on world tour where musicians would find themselves in compromising situations with conductors, coaches and staff. Being invited out personally by Martin Engstroem to meet Levine at a hotel for drinks was considered an honor; I know, it happened to me too. Many friends got themselves in difficult situations with mentors, and even now, so many years later, it has had a chilling effect on many careers. Verbier has a responsibility to come clean about past mistakes, and provide a safe learning environment for future musicians. As far as follow-up on complaints, I was groped by a conductor at Verbier and called the personnel manager. Her response: she gave me his personal cell phone number.

Quote
The case described in the link below about Munich’s University of Music boggles the imagination. A married composition professor with children was known for liaisons with students. He finally faced rape charges after taking a student to a sex club and allegedly blackmailing her into having sex with multiple partners. This is the same conservatory where Siegried Mauser was convicted of sexually assaulting two colleagues. I believe Mauser is currently facing new charges that are even more serious.

On the positive side, I think that at least in Germany, there is some movement toward creating more professional standards for professors, though I’m not certain how widespread these reforms are, or how successful.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/muenchen-wieder-gravierende-vorwuerfe-gegen-musik-professor-1.3075233

Quote
“Here’s an article that puts a little bit more focus where it should be: on the victims. Not on the downfall of a great man (banal at this point). Not on the hand-wringing and institutional rot of the Met management and board. Not on the self-indulgent laments of fans torn about how to view his legacy.

Levine was a Dream Crusher. He told talented and hopeful young men that submitting to his sexual needs was part of their musical development. Ponder a moment how messed up that is. When bassist Chris Brown rebuffed him after a first disturbing encounter at Meadow Brook, Levine instantly cut him off and withdrew mentorship. The specifics are chilling, especially considering the age of the victims, their vulnerability, and the insular educational context. Levine’s talent and sway only deepened the damage. His artistry was an exacerbating factor, not the extenuating circumstance that so many take it for.”
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Exzaclee

*
Offline Offline

Location: Edmond, OK
Joined: Mar 8, 2008
Posts: 6588
"Check out my new website!"


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Dec 07, 2017, 02:39PM »

A handful of problems doesn't make every extra curricular activity a hunting ground, Rob.

Expose the predators, aye... but let's not paint every organization with the same brush.
Logged

Music is my mistress, and she plays second fiddle to no one!
www.zacleemusic.com
Greg Waits
*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Rowlett Texas USA
Joined: Apr 18, 2016
Posts: 856

View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: Dec 07, 2017, 02:56PM »

On a related note, when I was in jr high school and high school I studied off an on with a (still) highly regarded trombone teacher.

At one point in my freshman year he was no longer teaching at my school. The official line? I was told that he had been spying on our program and was telling other school bands what we would be playing at contests. As ludicrous as that sounds now, it seemed reasonable at the time.

I continued to study with him on weekends at another school. It wasn't until years later that the truth came out. He had been let go because he was making sexual advances on his male students (all under age). It is common knowledge that he had a reputation for this sort of thing at several schools in the area. I am very thankful that he never made advances on me.

The teacher's proclivities and actions flew under the radar all that time and he bounced around from school to school for years.

Times have changed. That would never fly in today's atmosphere, thank goodness.
Logged
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6648

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Dec 07, 2017, 03:18PM »

On Knowing And Not Knowing About James Levine

Quote
Wen I was 12 years old, James Levine began his tenure as Music Director of the Boston Symphony Orchestra. My father was a cellist there. This is not an essay about abuse—I never met James Levine. This is an essay about what happens when knowledge is warped by a cult of interpretive genius. It is about having had my understanding of music fundamentally structured by James Levine’s craft when I was the same age as the children he allegedly liked to abuse, and in the process having decided not to know what I knew...

Quote
...When I was 12 years old and James Levine began his tenure as Music Director of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, my parents sat me down and told me that there were serious rumors swirling around him. They told me they had heard he had been inappropriate with young boys. At that time, I was often backstage at the BSO and Tanglewood, hanging out with friends who were also the children of BSO players, listening to rehearsals. They told me never to be alone in a room with James Levine. They told me to walk the other way if I saw him coming.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6648

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Dec 07, 2017, 03:42PM »

The teacher's proclivities and actions flew under the radar all that time and he bounced around from school to school for years.

I always wondered what the story was on the guy who preceded me as band director where I taught. By all accounts he was loved and adored by everyone but he appeared to have left just to go do the same job at an even smaller, more insignificant school.

One of the principals cautiously told me that he hadn't really quit, that they had "a problem" with him and told him to leave at the end of the year. Beyond that I never found out.


I also recall, when I was in high school, there were two teachers (and another I heard of since) that has a reputation for being too close, too friendly with the girls. One of them was the girls track team coach. It was indeed one of those "everyone knew it" but no one did anything about it situations.


Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Doug Elliott
Lord of the Rims

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 6794

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Dec 07, 2017, 03:50PM »

My high school choir director was suddenly let go and moved out of the area, in the middle of the year.  We were never told why but it was shortly after he said some very inappropriate things in class which I won't repeat here.

This stuff has been going on forever.
Logged

www.DougElliottMouthpieces.com
XT LexanN104,C+,D2, Williams 6, K&H Slokar alto, K&H Slokar Solo .547 open wrap
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51538
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Dec 07, 2017, 04:33PM »

It also appears that this is a sin for which you can never atone.

I won't defend the people who do this and continue to do it.

But we have to look at all sides.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Ellrod

*
Offline Offline

Location: North
Joined: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 6475

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Dec 07, 2017, 07:21PM »

There are very fine people on both sides?
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51538
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Dec 07, 2017, 08:25PM »

It's possible that someone does bad things and then changes.  I'm thinking of Al Franken.  For all I know, Moore may no longer be looking at young girls, but that needs to be proven.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6648

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Dec 07, 2017, 08:35PM »

I feel like the Dems folded too early on Franken when he still had 50% approval in MN.

It's not like the Republicans are gong to feel like they have to dump Moore now.

I don't think anything Franken did compares with what Levine is described as doing with his mandatory blind-folded jackoff sessions. Yeesh.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7264

View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: Dec 07, 2017, 09:52PM »

Happens far too often. Here is a case from my part of the world.
http://theworthyadversary.com/4431-the-chorus-and-the-cycle
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
Ellrod

*
Offline Offline

Location: North
Joined: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 6475

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Dec 08, 2017, 08:12AM »

In today's news:

Former Canadian national ski coach Bertrand Charest, who was convicted of 37 charges related to the sexual assault of some young athletes, was sentenced this morning in Saint-Jérôme, Que., to 12 years in prison.

It's everywhere.
Logged
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7264

View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: Dec 08, 2017, 09:38AM »

It's everywhere.
As troubling as the incidents of abuse are (and they are VERY troubling), I think the fact that there may have been people in positions of authority who were either willfully ignorant of what was going on or even actively sought to cover for the abusers is an order of magnitude more troubling.
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6648

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Dec 08, 2017, 09:42AM »

As troubling as the incidents of abuse are (and they are VERY troubling), I think the fact that there may have been people in positions of authority who were either willfully ignorant of what was going on or even actively sought to cover for the abusers is an order of magnitude more troubling.


Example: USA Gymnastics...


Gymnastics Doctor Who Abused Patients Gets 60 Years for Child Pornography


Quote
The case against Dr. Nassar emerged last year, after an Indianapolis Star investigation found that U.S.A. Gymnastics, the sport’s national governing body, had systematically failed to report gymnasts’ allegations of sexual abuse by coaches. Then, in September 2016, The Star published detailed accounts from two former gymnasts who said that, among other sexually abusive behavior, Dr. Nassar had penetrated them with his fingers, claiming it was a treatment for back pain.

Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6648

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Dec 09, 2017, 05:14PM »

A handful of problems doesn't make every extra curricular activity a hunting ground, Rob.

Expose the predators, aye... but let's not paint every organization with the same brush.

One of the defenses of Levine I'm reading on musicblogs is that everyone was doing it.

It was expected that college profs were banging the students.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51538
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: Dec 09, 2017, 05:55PM »

That still doesn't make it right.  Nor does the argument that even Mozart and Liszt did it.

There are subtle little things: you try to pose the student in a position and fingers slide into apertures they don't belong.  I believe this was what Nasser was doing.  Behind piles of mats with the parents in the room.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
EWadie99
The Curious One

*
Online Online

Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan
Joined: Jan 22, 2016
Posts: 535
"Bass Trombone! It's like a musical bazooka!"


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: Dec 09, 2017, 07:05PM »

Half a decade ago, there was a substitute band teacher in my school district who was caught have sexual relations with an underage girl (I believe she was one of his students) and was arrested and it was revealed that they exchanged explicit sexual photos via text messages.  Also I remember that same year he was arrested he subbed for OUR 6th grade band class Eeek! in our elementary.  Dark times we're living in. :/
 http://www.sourcenewspapers.com/news/substitute-band-teacher-accused-of-sex-with-student-exchanging-explicit/article_387fb3c1-c3a5-56a5-8c4d-c51f99b4793e.html
Logged

Ethan Wadie
Adlai E. Stevenson High School
Adlai E. Stevenson High School Jazz Ensemble
Adlai E. Stevenson High School Wind Ensemble
Bones:
Conn 88H (Generation II)
Getzen 1062FD
Ellrod

*
Offline Offline

Location: North
Joined: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 6475

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Dec 09, 2017, 07:51PM »

Same as it ever was probably. Except victims are speaking up.
Logged
harrison.t.reed
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colorado
Joined: Apr 5, 2007
Posts: 2836
"Spartan Brass Band!"


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: Dec 10, 2017, 08:18AM »

When I was in college, and to be clear I'm talking about college students who are nearly all legally adults, I was surprised at how many students actively tried to "get with" their teachers, male or female, straight or not. It seemed scandalous, but in the opposite way that these "me too" stories seem scandalous. It is not really surprising to me that, especially in college level programs of any kind, there are predatory teachers. I also wouldn't be surprised if enthusiastic adult college students had changed their mind about what they had agreed on doing after the fact.

I think that if these allegations cropping up everywhere are proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be true, it's terrible and people should be punished for breaking the law. I do think that, especially for people bringing up stuff that supposedly happened decades ago, allegations should be just that. Guilty until proven innocent is not how the judicial system is supposed to work. These things should be investigated by ethics comitees and by legal means. It is not for the media or for joe shmoes to decide what happened.
Logged

"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Ellrod

*
Offline Offline

Location: North
Joined: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 6475

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Dec 10, 2017, 09:01AM »

I recall an architecture grad student who signed up for first year music theory explaining that when he was in first year, the 4th year students got the girls, when he was in 4th year, the grad students got the girls, and when he became a grad student, the profs got the girls.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: