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The Trombone ForumCreation and PerformanceMusical Miscellany(Moderators: JP, BGuttman) James Levine, students, festivals
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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #40 on: Dec 23, 2017, 08:57PM »

If I understood correctly, he is suing her for making a Facebook post about a fairly well-known incident.
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #41 on: Dec 23, 2017, 09:15PM »

Here's an article from four years ago covering the same incident. 

It's not clear to me why he is suing Conant now when that article put it out there years ago.  Don't know
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« Reply #42 on: Dec 23, 2017, 09:35PM »

It’s been a while since law school - 35 years - but IIRC, it is actionable to repeat a defamatory statement. And that was in the GWN where the law of defamation was generally regarded as more protective of an individual’s reputation.
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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #43 on: Dec 24, 2017, 06:05AM »

Sure it's actionable. That still doesn't make it right.

It's ALSO a very lousy PR strategy. Suing the well-known and loved person who is basically the living symbol of the fight for gender equality in the trombone world over sexual assault accusations everybody knows about already. Way to boost your reputation...

Also, isn't it pretty reckless of him to throw rocks at this beehive given that the statutory limit is not reached yet?
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #44 on: Dec 24, 2017, 07:19AM »

Any artist with endorsements will be obligated to defend their reputation legally.

What would happen if a Yamaha artist appeared to be defamed ?
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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #45 on: Dec 24, 2017, 08:00AM »

Any artist with endorsements will be obligated to defend their reputation legally.

I would think any brand that cares about protecting its moral reputation would choose not to knowingly endorse someone who has been accused of assaulting a student in the first place, really.
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #46 on: Dec 24, 2017, 08:12AM »

That would go for an orchestra or school also.  What makes this interesting is that it's a civil case between the accused and a messenger, not a victim.  It seems to me the statute of limitations and other factors would potentially apply very differently, but I don't know anything about the law.
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« Reply #47 on: Dec 24, 2017, 08:13AM »

Sure it's actionable. That still doesn't make it right.

It's ALSO a very lousy PR strategy. Suing the well-known and loved person who is basically the living symbol of the fight for gender equality in the trombone world over sexual assault accusations everybody knows about already. Way to boost your reputation...

Also, isn't it pretty reckless of him to throw rocks at this beehive given that the statutory limit is not reached yet?

There won’t be many trombonists in the jury.
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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #48 on: Dec 24, 2017, 08:42AM »

There won’t be many trombonists in the jury.
As I said, lousy PR strategy. For the legal side, I don't know. But whether he wins in court or not, how does that help his reputation? Now not only will he still be known to have been accused of assault on a student (like that's gonna go away because he sued Abbie Conant? If anything it'll just make people talk about it more!), but he'll be known as a guy who launches petty lawsuits to gag activists. I just don't see how there's a win for him in this no matter the outcome.

That would go for an orchestra or school also.  What makes this interesting is that it's a civil case between the accused and a messenger, not a victim. 

True, it'll be interesting to see what happens with this, and I must say, very interesting timing, with all these accusations surfacing these days.

It seems to me the statute of limitations and other factors would potentially apply very differently, but I don't know anything about the law.

I mentioned the statute of limitations not because it is relevant to that lawsuit, but because he is still exposed to criminal prosecution. What if a victim who until now had decided not to file a complaint changes their mind because of that lawsuit? Seems like a very big risk to take just to make a point.
« Last Edit: Dec 24, 2017, 07:27PM by Le.Tromboniste » Logged

Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #49 on: Dec 24, 2017, 09:04AM »


According to the article, Conant never named him. It seems foolish to say he's the unnamed person.



Quote
Specifically, [the lawsuit] said, Allen "falsely alleged that [La Rosa], who is married, had committed and was criminally culpable for multiple sexual assaults on numerous college campuses [where La Rosa] had been invited to as a guest instructor.''

Quote
The suit said La Rosa "has never been criminally charged with, or even criminally investigated for, any such criminal behavior or other crimes of moral turpitude.''

Is that a non-denial denial?















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« Reply #50 on: Dec 24, 2017, 09:53AM »

See, why would he be "known to have assaulted" a student if it actually isn't known that he did that? Seems like that would be why he'd press charges for defamation of character. He's not convicted or charged with anything, but people keep bringing it up on social media. If Abbie didn't mention his name in her post, however, it seems like a hell of a dumb move to sue her.
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« Reply #51 on: Dec 24, 2017, 10:15AM »

Any artist with endorsements will be obligated to defend their reputation legally.

What would happen if a Yamaha artist appeared to be defamed ?

My understanding is that a "Yamaha Artist" doesn't actually make any money from being one.  It's more about the mutual glow of being associated with each other. Right?
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Robert Holmén

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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #52 on: Dec 24, 2017, 10:59AM »

See, why would he be "known to have assaulted" a student if it actually isn't known that he did that? Seems like that would be why he'd press charges for defamation of character. He's not convicted or charged with anything, but people keep bringing it up on social media. If Abbie didn't mention his name in her post, however, it seems like a hell of a dumb move to sue her.

Well there was a university police case opened, and if I remember well he was pushed out of or resigned his seat on the ITA Board because of it back then (I can't find the article or post anymore where I had read that years ago though). The story was also mentioned in news articles, and the one known victim interviewed about it. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge, maybe it isn't as widely known as I thought and he's trying to avoid it becoming widely known. I still think suing people is a strange move if your goal is to avoid people talking about it, especially years after it sarted (Abbie Conant's husband was already talking about it publically years ago, why the suit now and not then?). Denying rumors usually only fuels them. So I don't see what outcomes constitutes a win for him here in terms of PR/reputation. Of course there's always the money if he wins the suit.
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #53 on: Dec 24, 2017, 11:21AM »

That would go for an orchestra or school also.  What makes this interesting is that it's a civil case between the accused and a messenger, not a victim.  It seems to me the statute of limitations and other factors would potentially apply very differently, but I don't know anything about the law.

What fundamentally changes is the onus and burden of proof. LaRosa has to prove that it is more likely than not that the statements damaged his reputation (maybe just that the statements were capable of damaging his reputation). He doesn’t have to disprove the statements themselves. Conant might have to show that the statements were true or alternatively some sort of privilege attaches to them, for example, a warning to students. Depending on what she said, if a reasonable person knew she was talking about him, it might not be all that important that she didn’t identify him by name.

Still, your point is a good one MB. Why open this Pandora’s Box?

I’m sure the lawyers will get most of the money.

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« Reply #54 on: Dec 24, 2017, 11:27AM »

"Truth is an absolute defense against libel" they say.

You can't win a libel suit on the basis of damaging true statements, can you?  Don't know
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« Reply #55 on: Dec 24, 2017, 11:36AM »

Truth is a defence, yes. But who has to prove that (onus of proof)?* No charges, let alone a conviction. Will Conant have to investigate these specific circumstances and get the complainant to cooperate (first question on cross: is it correct that police investigated and no charges were ever laid?), keeping in mind that the rumours of other incidents are likely inadmissible?

My view only of course. There are other law types on this forum who may have other opinions.


* Answer: Conant.
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« Reply #56 on: Dec 24, 2017, 12:10PM »

Can I warn everyone that this is a public place and many pro players lurk here. Lawsuits could be brought and gossip is rarely a nice thing.

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« Reply #57 on: Dec 24, 2017, 01:12PM »

Innocent until proven guilty. Is that a thing any longer?
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« Reply #58 on: Dec 24, 2017, 01:18PM »

In a criminal trial it stands. The Trombone Forum is not a courtroom.
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« Reply #59 on: Dec 24, 2017, 01:29PM »

Innocent until proven guilty. Is that a thing any longer?

Guilt/innocence not really the issue in a civil case.
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