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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Should Trump be investigated for sexual assault/harrassment?
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Author Topic: Should Trump be investigated for sexual assault/harrassment?  (Read 1797 times)
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Ellrod

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« on: Dec 12, 2017, 11:46AM »

Should Trump be investigated in response to the evidence of the 16 women who have come forward?

It strikes me that in a society where no one is above the law and where criminal prosecutions are conducted by impartial investigators and prosecutors, and where in special cases, by special investigators and prosecutors selected for their impartiality, he should be.

Of course, that might not describe the US anymore.

But 16 women allege conduct ranging from inappropriate to assault. Surely, justice for all includes these complainants?
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BGuttman
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 12, 2017, 12:00PM »

I think this is getting out of hand.  I think Moore is an idiot, but his sexual perversions have little to do with his competence to serve as a Senator. 

People caught doing this need a strong slap on the wrist, but making them pariahs is a little excessive.  After all, the number of Presidents who chased skirts is rather long and begins with George Washington.
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 12, 2017, 12:07PM »

Some private or consensual perversion is A-OK to me. Good!  What consenting adults do when they are together or alone is none of my concern.  However, harassment and especially assault are criminal behavior.  I think assault was even a crime back in GW's day although sexual assault may not have been a recognized thing.  Don't know  In this day and age though, we have recognized them as crimes that damage the victims.  If he is guilty of it he should face charges, trial and punishment.  There have been allegations - it should be investigated.
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 12, 2017, 12:15PM »

I think this is getting out of hand.  I think Moore is an idiot, but his sexual perversions have little to do with his competence to serve as a Senator. 

People caught doing this need a strong slap on the wrist, but making them pariahs is a little excessive.  After all, the number of Presidents who chased skirts is rather long and begins with George Washington.

So it's ok to be a sexual predator as long as it doesn't interfere with your job?
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 12, 2017, 12:25PM »

So it's ok to be a sexual predator as long as it doesn't interfere with your job?

I think he deserves a visit with an Ethics Committee of some sort, just as Al Franken did (but didn't get).  If it can be clearly proven that he was a sexual predator he should be punished for his crime.

Criminal activity is punishable, even if you are President of the United States.

We're getting a little odd here.  The Boston NPR station (and its main sponsor, Boston University) suspended a host who had a rather belligerent style for bullying.  You can't hold the hand of every snowflake.
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 12, 2017, 12:48PM »

I'm of the mind that if every man who behaved stupidly in the presence of a woman is going to be accused of sexual harassment (which is a pretty broad and almost meaningless phrase it seems to me), a lot - and by a lot, I mean nearly all - of us men are in trouble.

But, some of the complaints, namely those involving sexual touching - appear - and by appear, I mean clearly amount to - some level of criminal sexual assault. And where this appears to be a pattern of behavior over a lengthy period of time, involving a number of victims, well, isn't there some sort of registry for this sort of person?

Bullying might simply be a different but also wrongful act. No need to equate the two.
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 12, 2017, 03:00PM »

So it's ok to be a sexual predator as long as it doesn't interfere with your job?

Asking a lady for her phone number makes someone a predator?

This is typical 'campaign allegations', except the ladies that made allegations about Trump have slumped back into the woodwork, because once it was clear that their dirty politics weren't going to work, what use were they?

Now, they think there is a new opportunity. Geez louieeeez, I can't believe people even give these allegations the time of day.

This new found high moral ground by the democrats is a joke. Let's move on to something more important.

democrats need a reality check.

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« Reply #7 on: Dec 12, 2017, 03:02PM »

I'm of the mind that if every man who behaved stupidly in the presence of a woman is going to be accused of sexual harassment (which is a pretty broad and almost meaningless phrase it seems to me), a lot - and by a lot, I mean nearly all - of us men are in trouble.

But, some of the complaints, namely those involving sexual touching - appear - and by appear, I mean clearly amount to - some level of criminal sexual assault. And where this appears to be a pattern of behavior over a lengthy period of time, involving a number of victims, well, isn't there some sort of registry for this sort of person?

Bullying might simply be a different but also wrongful act. No need to equate the two.

Registry for those convicted.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 12, 2017, 03:32PM »

Registry for those convicted.

But not convicted by the Press or random political pronouncements.
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 12, 2017, 04:35PM »

The slipperiest slope that we see in front of us now, is that it seems very easy to accuse someone of sexual misconduct, and yet the accused is presumed guilty without any chance to defend themselves.
If proven false, there can be irreparable damage to the reputation of the accused, and can also lead them to a higher risk of attempting suicide.
One instance I can think of is Johnny Depp. He was accused by his Ex Wife Amber Heard about physical violence, and even without any charges laid etc, JD was at risk of losing roles in movies, such as the Harry Potter spin off films, Fantastic Beasts.
People, and especially the Press are too quick to point fingers and lay blame, but not apologise where false accusations have been made.
I'm not saying that JD is innocent, it may have happened, and I certainly believe that is wrong to assault anyone, let alone your female partner, but not all of the facts are on the table, so it needs to be addressed properly.
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 12, 2017, 04:49PM »

Bruce,

Least we forget Mike Pence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/30/mike-pence-doesnt-dine-alone-with-other-women-and-were-all-shocked/?utm_term=.16e0b41fac56

In today’s environment one cannot be too cautious I guess.  Don't know

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« Reply #11 on: Dec 12, 2017, 05:16PM »

Asking a lady for her phone number makes someone a predator?

This is typical 'campaign allegations', except the ladies that made allegations about Trump have slumped back into the woodwork, because once it was clear that their dirty politics weren't going to work, what use were they?

Now, they think there is a new opportunity. Geez louieeeez, I can't believe people even give these allegations the time of day.

This new found high moral ground by the democrats is a joke. Let's move on to something more important.

democrats need a reality check.



Just goes to prove, once again, that the Repblicans are the party of the (Im)Moral (Min)Majority
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 12, 2017, 05:18PM »

Quote
"Asking a lady for her phone number makes someone a predator?"

First...Why is an adult man asking a 14-year-old girl, who he does not know, for her phone number? What would be the good reasons for that?

Second... here's Moore's reason...

Quote
Alone with Corfman, Moore chatted with her and asked for her phone number, she says. Days later, she says, he picked her up around the corner from her house in Gadsden, drove her about 30 minutes to his home in the woods, told her how pretty she was and kissed her. On a second visit, she says, he took off her shirt and pants and removed his clothes. He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear.

“I wanted it over with — I wanted out,” she remembers thinking. “Please just get this over with. Whatever this is, just get it over.” Corfman says she asked Moore to take her home, and he did.

Yes, the 14-year-old did agree to see him. When she did that, do we think she understood what she was getting into like a woman of Moore's age would?

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« Reply #13 on: Dec 12, 2017, 05:50PM »

Asking a lady for her phone number makes someone a predator?

This is typical 'campaign allegations', except the ladies that made allegations about Trump have slumped back into the woodwork, because once it was clear that their dirty politics weren't going to work, what use were they?

Now, they think there is a new opportunity. Geez louieeeez, I can't believe people even give these allegations the time of day.

This new found high moral ground by the democrats is a joke. Let's move on to something more important.

democrats need a reality check.



All of the allegations against Trump involve more than asking a woman for her phone number.
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:15AM »

I think he deserves a visit with an Ethics Committee of some sort, just as Al Franken did (but didn't get).  If it can be clearly proven that he was a sexual predator he should be punished for his crime.

Criminal activity is punishable, even if you are President of the United States.

We're getting a little odd here.  The Boston NPR station (and its main sponsor, Boston University) suspended a host who had a rather belligerent style for bullying.  You can't hold the hand of every snowflake.

To begin with, Politicians conducting an ethics committee is pretty funny...In Trumps case, these allegations were known to voters prior to the election, in which he was elected to office anyway...So ethically I don't see a case, now morally that is another issue...The other issue that is disturbing is that many of the accusers are anonymous, tough to defend yourself against a ghost...
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:22AM »

Not anonymous.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/what-happened-to-trumps-16-sexual-misconduct-accusers.html
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:26AM »

Well, trotting out sexual allegations works when you can't win on policy.  Evil
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 13, 2017, 10:38AM »

Well, trotting out sexual allegations works when you can't win on policy.  Evil

Or when you've been sexually assaulted.
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:52AM »

I think we can base the reliability of Trump's accusers on the fact that he himself has admitted the behaviors he's accused of.

His accusers describe him as suddenly kissing them on the lips, and he says he does that.
His accusers describe him as spontaneously groping them sexually, and he says he does that.
His accusers describe him as aggressively pursuing women who aren't interested, including married women, and he says he does that.
His accusers describe him as barging into the dressing room at his pageant, and he says he does that.

His defense isn't that he doesn't indulge in these behaviors--he admits that--but that these aren't the women he did it to. "She wouldn't be my first choice"--his words--isn't much of a defense.

His defenders are stuck with the following: "She says Trump sexually assaults women, and Trump says he sexually assaults women. They're both lying."
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:53AM »

Or when you've been sexually assaulted.

Of course. But, in Moore's case, it took them 30 years to determine that they were assaulted. LOL!
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