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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Should Trump be investigated for sexual assault/harrassment?
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Author Topic: Should Trump be investigated for sexual assault/harrassment?  (Read 1811 times)
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Piano man
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:56AM »

Of course. But, in Moore's case, it took them 30 years to determine that they were assaulted. LOL!

LOL, indeed. I'm picturing you laughing out loud at a 14-year-old girl being forced to touch a man's erection, and it perfectly fits my image of you.

Have you considered the perspective of the girl who was assaulted? She probably blamed herself. She didn't tell people because she was frightened, ashamed and embarrassed.

Laugh it up.
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ddickerson

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« Reply #21 on: Dec 13, 2017, 12:21PM »

LOL, indeed. I'm picturing you laughing out loud at a 14-year-old girl being forced to touch a man's erection, and it perfectly fits my image of you.

Have you considered the perspective of the girl who was assaulted? She probably blamed herself. She didn't tell people because she was frightened, ashamed and embarrassed.

Laugh it up.

Can you provide proof that this happened?

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« Reply #22 on: Dec 13, 2017, 12:53PM »

Can you provide proof that this happened?



It's the usual problem with these cases.  It's her word versus his.  Who do you prefer to believe?

We have several similar stories from different people about the same act.

One could be a fluke.  What about several?
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ddickerson

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« Reply #23 on: Dec 13, 2017, 12:59PM »

It's the usual problem with these cases.  It's her word versus his.  Who do you prefer to believe?


Exactly! That's why we shouldn't paint people with false motives for having different opinions on who to believe, when it is impossible to prove one way or the other. There are good reasons not to believe these kind of 'campaign allegations'.

Same thing happened to Herman Cain when he ran as a presidential candidate. I notice that Herman is not in jail. Why is that?
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 13, 2017, 01:16PM »

It's the usual problem with these cases.  It's her word versus his.  Who do you prefer to believe?

We have several similar stories from different people about the same act.

One could be a fluke.  What about several?


It's more than that. The are a number of complainants all of whom have similar stories about a pattern of conduct, especially when combined with Trump's comments (voluntary, against interest) on the bus with Billy. How much of this might be admissible as similar fact I'll leave to practicing criminal lawyers. 

Nice "what about?" Dusty. Forget about the president grabbing some woman by the *****, what about ...?
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:00PM »

Innocent until proven guilty is applicable only to Republicans according to DD
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:38PM »

Can you provide proof that this happened?



No, sir, but I'm not laughing out loud, either. It's a very reasonable possibility and even likelihood that this girl was victimized in this fashion. This isn't a remote outcome--even in Alabama, more voters believed than disbelieved the allegations. The likelihood that this girl suffered in this manner would keep me, but not you, from 'laughing out loud' at the situation. To each his own. I think that's disgusting.

Secondly, it's plain that you place politics above the victims in these cases. There are many cases similar to this, where the defender denies that the incident occurred, or claims that it's consensual. If this weren't purely political to you, you'd be able to show posts where you raised the same issue on behalf of a liberal or a Democrat. In the absence of that, it's plain that you're using this for political manipulation and are largely indifferent to what happens to girls and women in these situations.

By all means, keep laughing. After all, you weren't the one who was molested.
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:47PM »

No, sir, but I'm not laughing out loud, either.

You don't even know what I was laughing about! Geez!

And you obviously can't even comprehend the points that I make, and so you start claiming things that you think I mean. How dumb is that?
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:47PM »

Same thing happened to Herman Cain when he ran as a presidential candidate. I notice that Herman is not in jail. Why is that?

The difference is in burden of proof.

The burden of proof to put someone 'in jail' is appropriately very high.

The burden of proof in a civil case is much lower--basically 50% plus.

The burden of proof to vote against someone is just the bad smell coming off of them. In the case of Roy Moore, it's the multiple, similar allegations against him; his admission that he first noticed his future wife at a dance recital when she was fifteen; his admission that when he was in his thirties he asked his dates' parents for permission; the multiple people who knew him at the time who say it's an open secret that he hankered for much younger women; and his lying about knowing the women, which is substantially proved false.

If he did nothing wrong, why would he lie?
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:51PM »

The difference is in burden of proof.

The burden of proof to put someone 'in jail' is appropriately very high.

The burden of proof in a civil case is much lower--basically 50% plus.

The burden of proof to vote against someone is just the bad smell coming off of them. In the case of Roy Moore, it's the multiple, similar allegations against him; his admission that he first noticed his future wife at a dance recital when she was fifteen; his admission that when he was in his thirties he asked his dates' parents for permission; the multiple people who knew him at the time who say it's an open secret that he hankered for much younger women; and his lying about knowing the women, which is substantially proved false.

If he did nothing wrong, why would he lie?

It proves that the allegations against Herman were just 'campaign allegations'. That's what democrats stoop to when they don't have a winning policy.
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:52PM »

You don't even know what I was laughing about! Geez!

Sure, it's a load of laughs, as rape cases always are. You just can't suppress a chuckle.

You still haven't shown that you've ever raised the issue of accuser reliability except to support conservatives and Republicans, which makes it fake on your part.
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 13, 2017, 02:57PM »

It proves that the allegations against Herman were just 'campaign allegations'. That's what democrats stoop to when they don't have a winning policy.

It doesn't prove that at all. It proves that the allegations didn't rise to a level that would support a prosecution. That doesn't make them untrue or poorly motivated. Besides, the undeniable allegation in this case was that Cain was utterly unqualified to be president. He was front-runner for about five minutes, then started talking and ruined it.

In the case of Moore, the accounts were multiple, consistent (both with one another and with his reputation), and corroborated both by contemporaneous written record and by Moore's own recent statements. This was sufficient to get even Alabamans to give him the boot.

In the case of Trump, we have his own accounts that corroborate the victims' stories.
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« Reply #32 on: Dec 13, 2017, 04:06PM »

Sure, it's a load of laughs, as rape cases always are. You just can't suppress a chuckle.

You still haven't shown that you've ever raised the issue of accuser reliability except to support conservatives and Republicans, which makes it fake on your part.


I don't have to show you anything. LOL!
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« Reply #33 on: Dec 13, 2017, 04:13PM »

I don't have to show you anything. LOL!

It's not that you don't have to, it's that you can't. Your entire concern over these rape and abuse allegations has been in service of your politics, which shows that you don't care about the victims. If you could show otherwise, you would.
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« Reply #34 on: Dec 13, 2017, 04:29PM »

Back on topic, if a normal criminal defendant made statements, either in public or private, that corroborated witness testimony, that would lend credence to the testimony of the witness or victim. In other words, Trump gave details on his sexual assaults on women that precisely match the allegations. That not only passes as a sort of confession, but shows a knowledge of details that only the perpetrator would have.

In order to defend Trump, or pass off the accusations as 'political', you have to conclude that the alleged victims and Trump himself are all lying. I don't see how you get around that.
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« Reply #35 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:04PM »

Back on topic, if a normal criminal defendant made statements, either in public or private, that corroborated witness testimony, that would lend credence to the testimony of the witness or victim. In other words, Trump gave details on his sexual assaults on women that precisely match the allegations. That not only passes as a sort of confession, but shows a knowledge of details that only the perpetrator would have.
 
In order to defend Trump, or pass off the accusations as 'political', you have to conclude that the alleged victims and Trump himself are all lying. I don't see how you get around that.

Easy ... just takes a fundamentally dishonest and self-absorbed mindset.
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« Reply #36 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:56PM »

It proves that the allegations against Herman were just 'campaign allegations'. That's what democrats stoop to when they don't have a winning policy.
Yeah, it's not like the Repulicans brought any 'campaign allegations' against Clinton.

You are so full of s hit your eyes are turning brown.

Dusty, is it impossible for you to argue a point with some integrity?
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« Reply #37 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:18PM »

Yeah, it's not like the Repulicans brought any 'campaign allegations' against Clinton.

You are so full of s hit your eyes are turning brown.

Dusty, is it impossible for you to argue a point with some integrity?


I think that it's impossible for you people to listen to other view points. 
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« Reply #38 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:22PM »

I think that it's impossible for you people to listen to other view points. 

Your viewpoints are quite transparent.  You are the only one who really knows anything and the rest of us are idiots who are getting in your way :-P

My problem is that I listen to everybody's viewpoints and then make up my mind.  I'm not closed, and I don't automatically agree with you.
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« Reply #39 on: Dec 13, 2017, 09:18PM »

"Accused many times but not actually convicted of felony sexual assault" is an appropriate standard for deciding not to send someone to prison but it's a poor standard for high office.
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