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Author Topic: 3 newbie questions  (Read 1100 times)
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lauriet
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« on: Dec 26, 2017, 04:06AM »

Hey all. Just a few question you'all may be able to help with.

1) i have a 12c and a 6.5al mp, both in metal and plastic. (4 in all)
I can't really tell any difference between them. Is it that big a deal at my stage
(4 months playing) or should i forget about it for now ?

2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
It seems to work. Am i on the right track ?

3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?

Thanks for any advice.
Laurie
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 26, 2017, 04:38AM »

1. Pick one I would suggest the 6 1/2. Stick to it and practice a lot

2. If you don't have a teacher get one!

3 if you don't have a teacher get one

And imho you should find an ensemble to play with....music should be fun and sociable!!
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 26, 2017, 05:51AM »

Agree with the previous answers. A (good)  teacher will go a long way helping you.

2) using vowel shapes to control airspeed in relation to range (O or low open A for low range, gradually raising/arching the tongue towards "eeee"  in the high range) is a school of playing many adhere to. Whether it's "the right track" is somewhat open to debate, as some people don't adhere to that.

3) time / practice is a solution, at least partially, to lots of things. It's not necessarily good to over-analyse what's happening in your playing, especially while  you're playing. But generally, training your ear, singing, and having the habit of singing your music in your head as you're playing it (or actually, slightly before), and thus mentally hearing the note before you play it will always help securing the beginning of notes, as will having the slide at the right place to match the pitch. Other common reasons for cracking notes are having your tongue in the way disrupting the air flow, as well as bad coordination between your air, tongue and buzz at the moment of the attack.
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 26, 2017, 07:43AM »


2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".


"tah", not "tar"  :-0

If you are not a native English speaker listen to it here (press the speaker button)

You want the open air passage that the "ah" vowel creates.

Use "tah" as the normal vowel.  "Tee" is useful for high notes but if you are just starting out you probably aren't up to those high notes that really need it yet.

Quote
3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?

Possible cause... your lips were not ready for the note you were about to play.

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« Reply #4 on: Dec 26, 2017, 08:50AM »

Wouldn't many native English speakers pronounce "Tar" the same way as "tah", sort of like how Bostonians "pahk tha cahh"? But in a more UK style?

I bet that was what she was going for.
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 26, 2017, 08:57AM »

Wouldn't many native English speakers pronounce "Tar" the same way as "tah", sort of like how Bostonians "pahk tha cahh"? But in a more UK style?

I bet that was what she was going for.
The vowel sound would be the same but I would think trying to put an R consonant on it would close and restrict the throat.  Pronouncing both tah and tar out loud and you can feel the difference.   
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 26, 2017, 08:59AM »

As an American, the UK pronunciation of Tar sounds like Tah to me. No ending consonant to my ears. I bet there's something going on way back in there though.
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 26, 2017, 09:01AM »

The 'R' sound is a dipthong, so I would think that you wouldn't incorporate that into long tones.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 26, 2017, 09:10AM »

I'd also like to point out that the Toe-Tah-Tee is actually part of a continuum.  You won't find that, for example, C is Toe and D above it is Tah.  Doesn't work that way. 

Note that some prefer D syllables: Doe-Dah-Dee.  Try both and see what works better for you.

Cracking the start of a note (or hissing) is a problem of the synchronization of the air, lip tension, and tongue.  There's a reason a lot of the beginning exercises are slow.  It's a chance to get things synchronized before you start speeding up.
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 26, 2017, 09:18AM »

I did consider the possibility that some strange regional aberration of pronunciation (the British) might be involved. 

That is why I included a link that OP can visit to hear an audible demonstration and remove any doubt about what I, unaccented Middle-West American, regard "tah" to sound like.

"tar" should be discarded immediately, even if it is somehow coming out like "tah."  Clever


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« Reply #10 on: Dec 26, 2017, 06:19PM »

In Australia tar and tah sound the same.

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« Reply #11 on: Dec 26, 2017, 06:38PM »

Is someone there actually teaching "tar"? 
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 26, 2017, 10:00PM »

Apparently you've never been to England or Australia.

I was a little confused at first when I went to the Great Barrier Reef and stayed in Cairns, pronounced something like "Cans."

I can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 26, 2017, 10:34PM »

I can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.

"do re mi fa sol la ti do" aren't words either but aside from the von Trapp children I don't think anyone has been baffled by their use.


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« Reply #14 on: Dec 27, 2017, 12:16AM »

Here in oz we would pronounce it:

doe, ray, me, far, so, lar, tea, doe
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 27, 2017, 01:06AM »

Actually they ARE words... They're the Italian names of the notes.
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 27, 2017, 03:10AM »

Is someone there actually teaching "tar"? 

Ive never thought about it consciously but yeah.... I would say "Tah" and "Tar" exactly the same way if I was reading out loud.... im actually struggling to imagine how you would say them differently. Even when I do my american accent  :D Ill have to ask my American friends to say it for me when im back in L.A. in a month.
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 27, 2017, 05:15AM »

Actually they ARE words... They're the Italian names of the notes.

And Spanish and French and Portuguese and Romanian etc. And of course they're actually Latin first.

But they're not used because they are words they became words because they were used.
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 27, 2017, 06:30AM »

Every choir director I've ever had has railed against the "American R."  They want it left out.  We'll drive too fah not too far. 

When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine. 

"Oh" is a diphthong too. 
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 27, 2017, 06:39AM »

I have been playing 45 years and still crack notes. Don't lose sleep over it.
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