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Author Topic: 3 newbie questions  (Read 1089 times)
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lauriet
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« on: Dec 26, 2017, 04:06AM »

Hey all. Just a few question you'all may be able to help with.

1) i have a 12c and a 6.5al mp, both in metal and plastic. (4 in all)
I can't really tell any difference between them. Is it that big a deal at my stage
(4 months playing) or should i forget about it for now ?

2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
It seems to work. Am i on the right track ?

3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?

Thanks for any advice.
Laurie
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 26, 2017, 04:38AM »

1. Pick one I would suggest the 6 1/2. Stick to it and practice a lot

2. If you don't have a teacher get one!

3 if you don't have a teacher get one

And imho you should find an ensemble to play with....music should be fun and sociable!!
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 26, 2017, 05:51AM »

Agree with the previous answers. A (good)  teacher will go a long way helping you.

2) using vowel shapes to control airspeed in relation to range (O or low open A for low range, gradually raising/arching the tongue towards "eeee"  in the high range) is a school of playing many adhere to. Whether it's "the right track" is somewhat open to debate, as some people don't adhere to that.

3) time / practice is a solution, at least partially, to lots of things. It's not necessarily good to over-analyse what's happening in your playing, especially while  you're playing. But generally, training your ear, singing, and having the habit of singing your music in your head as you're playing it (or actually, slightly before), and thus mentally hearing the note before you play it will always help securing the beginning of notes, as will having the slide at the right place to match the pitch. Other common reasons for cracking notes are having your tongue in the way disrupting the air flow, as well as bad coordination between your air, tongue and buzz at the moment of the attack.
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 26, 2017, 07:43AM »


2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".


"tah", not "tar"  :-0

If you are not a native English speaker listen to it here (press the speaker button)

You want the open air passage that the "ah" vowel creates.

Use "tah" as the normal vowel.  "Tee" is useful for high notes but if you are just starting out you probably aren't up to those high notes that really need it yet.

Quote
3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?

Possible cause... your lips were not ready for the note you were about to play.

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« Reply #4 on: Dec 26, 2017, 08:50AM »

Wouldn't many native English speakers pronounce "Tar" the same way as "tah", sort of like how Bostonians "pahk tha cahh"? But in a more UK style?

I bet that was what she was going for.
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 26, 2017, 08:57AM »

Wouldn't many native English speakers pronounce "Tar" the same way as "tah", sort of like how Bostonians "pahk tha cahh"? But in a more UK style?

I bet that was what she was going for.
The vowel sound would be the same but I would think trying to put an R consonant on it would close and restrict the throat.  Pronouncing both tah and tar out loud and you can feel the difference.   
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 26, 2017, 08:59AM »

As an American, the UK pronunciation of Tar sounds like Tah to me. No ending consonant to my ears. I bet there's something going on way back in there though.
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 26, 2017, 09:01AM »

The 'R' sound is a dipthong, so I would think that you wouldn't incorporate that into long tones.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 26, 2017, 09:10AM »

I'd also like to point out that the Toe-Tah-Tee is actually part of a continuum.  You won't find that, for example, C is Toe and D above it is Tah.  Doesn't work that way. 

Note that some prefer D syllables: Doe-Dah-Dee.  Try both and see what works better for you.

Cracking the start of a note (or hissing) is a problem of the synchronization of the air, lip tension, and tongue.  There's a reason a lot of the beginning exercises are slow.  It's a chance to get things synchronized before you start speeding up.
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 26, 2017, 09:18AM »

I did consider the possibility that some strange regional aberration of pronunciation (the British) might be involved. 

That is why I included a link that OP can visit to hear an audible demonstration and remove any doubt about what I, unaccented Middle-West American, regard "tah" to sound like.

"tar" should be discarded immediately, even if it is somehow coming out like "tah."  Clever


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« Reply #10 on: Dec 26, 2017, 06:19PM »

In Australia tar and tah sound the same.

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« Reply #11 on: Dec 26, 2017, 06:38PM »

Is someone there actually teaching "tar"? 
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 26, 2017, 10:00PM »

Apparently you've never been to England or Australia.

I was a little confused at first when I went to the Great Barrier Reef and stayed in Cairns, pronounced something like "Cans."

I can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 26, 2017, 10:34PM »

I can understand using "Tar" since it's an actual word and "Tah" isn't.

"do re mi fa sol la ti do" aren't words either but aside from the von Trapp children I don't think anyone has been baffled by their use.


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« Reply #14 on: Dec 27, 2017, 12:16AM »

Here in oz we would pronounce it:

doe, ray, me, far, so, lar, tea, doe
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 27, 2017, 01:06AM »

Actually they ARE words... They're the Italian names of the notes.
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 27, 2017, 03:10AM »

Is someone there actually teaching "tar"? 

Ive never thought about it consciously but yeah.... I would say "Tah" and "Tar" exactly the same way if I was reading out loud.... im actually struggling to imagine how you would say them differently. Even when I do my american accent  :D Ill have to ask my American friends to say it for me when im back in L.A. in a month.
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 27, 2017, 05:15AM »

Actually they ARE words... They're the Italian names of the notes.

And Spanish and French and Portuguese and Romanian etc. And of course they're actually Latin first.

But they're not used because they are words they became words because they were used.
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 27, 2017, 06:30AM »

Every choir director I've ever had has railed against the "American R."  They want it left out.  We'll drive too fah not too far. 

When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine. 

"Oh" is a diphthong too. 
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 27, 2017, 06:39AM »

I have been playing 45 years and still crack notes. Don't lose sleep over it.
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 27, 2017, 07:27AM »

Every choir director I've ever had has railed against the "American R."  They want it left out.  We'll drive too fah not too far. 

When we lived in Germany we were told no American would ever match the German R pronunciation, we should just skip R's in any word and it would sound fine. 

"Oh" is a diphthong too. 

You mean "oh" contains a diphthong.
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 27, 2017, 07:47AM »

You mean "oh" contains a diphthong.


On which you could stub your "toe." 

There are an infinite number of shadings between vowels, as Anna Marie Haefele so ably demonstrates. 
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 27, 2017, 02:57PM »

So i guess that its a yes for using toe/tar/tee (given the aussie accent).
What about the mp. I get the impression that it is a suttle difference at best, or am i too inexperienced to hear it ?.
And cracking notes ???

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« Reply #23 on: Dec 27, 2017, 03:37PM »

So i guess that its a yes for using toe/tar/tee (given the aussie accent).
What about the mp. I get the impression that it is a suttle difference at best, or am i too inexperienced to hear it ?.
And cracking notes ???



At some point you will discover there is a difference in the response of the two mouthpieces.  If you can't tell the difference, don't sweat it.  Keep working on your technique and sonority.
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 27, 2017, 06:45PM »

Depending on the brand of the mouthpieces you have, it's possible the only difference is the number stamped on them.
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 29, 2017, 04:57PM »

Hey all. Just a few question you'all may be able to help with.

1) i have a 12c and a 6.5al mp, both in metal and plastic. (4 in all)
I can't really tell any difference between them. Is it that big a deal at my stage
(4 months playing) or should i forget about it for now ?

2) At the moment for low notes i say "toe", mids i say "tar", and highs i say "tee".
It seems to work. Am i on the right track ?

3) I still occasionally 'crack' the start of a note. Is the solution time/practice,
or is there a technique i should know ?

Thanks for any advice.
Laurie


1. At your stage I would advice to pick one and play it for some time to make a ground for further development.
2. I think you are on the right track!
3. The start of note is essential in how to make music and styles in music. Its about articulation. There is so many methods. In and out breath should be in one movement. Use a metronome when practice start of notes. Try start notes without tongue and then add it. Play melodies where you only think about music and making a good sound. Sometimes when when you only think about one problem like start of a note, everything will go wrong. Think music even on long notes.

It will come  Good!

Leif
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« Reply #26 on: Jan 09, 2018, 10:31AM »

Agree that joining an ensemble is a great idea.

Though many disagree with me, I don’t see getting a teacher to be of primal importance.  I think practicing is.  Great thing about a teacher is that they shorten the learning curve.  Problem with a teacher is that they can snuff out enjoyment of the instrument. 

When it comes to music, I do what I enjoy....as I am not a student and have a full work life not related to music.  If music were my profession, I would probably have a teacher.  If I were a music student with aspirations, I would likely have a teacher.


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