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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, Greg Waits) Your personal favourite out of these horns?
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Stefanbencic
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« on: Dec 27, 2017, 02:53PM »

Bach A47I, Bach A47MLR, Edwards T396-A, Edwards T350-HB, AC420 and YSL-8820.
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 27, 2017, 03:53PM »

Edwards T396-A
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 27, 2017, 06:36PM »

When I tried the T396-A it struck me as the one instrument that might actually be able to do it all. Obviously it's built to fill the role of principal trombone in an orchestra, but it's so responsive and easy to play that it is far more versatile than that role would suggest. The price tag reflects that, however!
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 27, 2017, 07:35PM »

Not really a good comparison, IMHO. The Edwards T-350HB is a custom horn, and the A47I can be customized somewhat as well. I think the AC420 also has some options.
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 27, 2017, 09:19PM »

I am a convert to the T-396.  It is remarkably even and easy to play, plus the fixed configuration locks you out of looking for hardware solutions to problems that you should really be looking inward to solve. 
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 27, 2017, 11:32PM »

Not really a good comparison, IMHO. The Edwards T-350HB is a custom horn, and the A47I can be customized somewhat as well. I think the AC420 also has some options.
If you could choose a setup that fits you.
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 28, 2017, 06:04AM »

T-396A
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 28, 2017, 07:30AM »

I'll be an outlier - I don't like the T-396A. I'd probably go with the Courtois if I had to pick. If the Yamaha was the 882 and not the 882O I'd go with that one without question.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 28, 2017, 07:45AM »

T-396A. I feel like it gives me the best opportunity to make the sound that's in my head!

I love the way the Courtois horns play, but for me the sound can get "tinny". Thats probably just me though.

The Bachs are as good as any if you get a good one, but I don't like the modular setup. That got me into trouble with my Shires. I was always looking for a horn to fix what I should really have been practicing. See Quote:

I am a convert to the T-396.  It is remarkably even and easy to play, plus the fixed configuration locks you out of looking for hardware solutions to problems that you should really be looking inward to solve. 

The Yamahas are a good blend of sound and response (I almost bought a Xeno a couple of years ago). The only thing that stopped me is that I think my sound is more interesting on the Edwards.

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« Reply #9 on: Dec 28, 2017, 07:46AM »

I would like to know why you are limiting yourself to these choices?
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 28, 2017, 10:06AM »

T-396A. I feel like it gives me the best opportunity to make the sound that's in my head!

I love the way the Courtois horns play, but for me the sound can get "tinny". Thats probably just me though.

The Bachs are as good as any if you get a good one, but I don't like the modular setup. That got me into trouble with my Shires. I was always looking for a horn to fix what I should really have been practicing. See Quote:

The Yamahas are a good blend of sound and response (I almost bought a Xeno a couple of years ago). The only thing that stopped me is that I think my sound is more interesting on the Edwards.


Interesting cause i've heard people say T-396-A has a "tinny" sound and the only reason Joe doesn't have this "tinny" sound is because he uses Griego-Alessi 1C mouthpiece.
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« Reply #11 on: Dec 28, 2017, 10:17AM »

The 396 can have a big sound with a variety of mouthpieces. I played in a section with someone using a Wick 5AL and he sounded quite good on it.  It isn't my cup of tea but if I ended up with one I wouldn't be disappointed either. On that list its probably my 2nd behind the T350HB.  But I don't go for Bach style horns as much anymore.  If the 882OR was on that list it would be my top choice. I wouldn't limit myself to just those options though.
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 28, 2017, 10:36AM »

Bach A47I, Bach A47MLR, Edwards T396-A, Edwards T350-HB, AC420 and YSL-8820.

Those new horns are probably over my budget so I would not even consider them, but I do know I like my old Edwards T350 made in the 90'-ies and my Antoine Cortouis 420BO "Challanger I" from the beginning of this century. They are both great brands. I can understand you want the best and are prepared to pay to get that super horn. My advice is to try them all as well as other horns too, before you buy. I think I only payed 10% of the new price for those horns on your list I've got. A good deal because they probably look and play 98% as good as a new one.

If you want to spend a lot of money on a good trombone then I think you found the right ones to consider. Add a new Shires to the list and you got the herd.

I would consider buying used too. An Elkhart Conn 88h or a good Bach 42 could be a great option.

/Tom
 
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 28, 2017, 10:58AM »

Those new horns are probably over my budget so I would not even consider them, but I do know I like my old Edwards T350 made in the 90'-ies and my Antoine Cortouis 420BO "Challanger I" from the beginning of this century. They are both great brands. I can understand you want the best and are prepared to pay to get that super horn. My advice is to try them all as well as other horns too, before you buy. I think I only payed 10% of the new price for those horns on your list I've got. A good deal because they probably look and play 98% as good as a new one.

If you want to spend a lot of money on a good trombone then I think you found the right ones to consider. Add a new Shires to the list and you got the herd.

I would consider buying used too. An Elkhart Conn 88h or a good Bach 42 could be a great option.

/Tom
 
The thing is that i got around 6000$ from a scholarship and all the money that i don't spend i have to return back so i'm looking for a really expensive horn on purpose.
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:01AM »

The thing is that i got around 6000$ from a scholarship and all the money that i don't spend i have to return back so i'm looking for a really expensive horn on purpose.


Wouldn't it be better to find the best horn for you??
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:04AM »

Does the scholarship specifically say that all the money has to be spent on one trombone?
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:22AM »


Wouldn't it be better to find the best horn for you??

Seems like a good idea.

I have a couple of Courtois, and definitely prefer them to the Bachs, don't know the Edwards that well.
If I had to spend some money I'd also be checking out Rath, Thein, Shires, and M&W.
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:26AM »


Wouldn't it be better to find the best horn for you??

Where i live there is not really a place to try out trombones.The only way i can try them is if any fellow trombonists around here have them or my father's colleagues and students.So i've tried one T396A(wasn't blown away but will try it again), a Rath(didn't like it) and a Shires that my father plays that i like but what's the point of buying another one when i can just take his and give him whatever i get if i don't like it.Also i played on Matt Vaughns (philadelphia orchestra) horn for 3 weeks it's a T350HB with a Bach 42 corporation bell i liked that more than the T396A.
I've heard good things about courtois and A LOT of big name trombonists play it.
I haven't seen a lot of ppl talkink about the A47 Infinity Bach that's why i put it there.
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:27AM »

Does the scholarship specifically say that all the money has to be spent on one trombone?
Well i asked for one.
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:30AM »

The thing is that i got around 6000$ from a scholarship and all the money that i don't spend i have to return back so i'm looking for a really expensive horn on purpose.

I see  Good! You could buy a contrabass trombone or at least a bass trombone. That would be the most expensive trombone. Could you buy a tuba? It is a very specific and unusual problem you've got. Lucky you  ;-)

/Tom
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:43AM »

Well i asked for one.

Perhaps you can explain the situation a little better. Are you getting $6000 to do with as you please, or is someone spending up to $6000 on a trombone for you?
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:48AM »

If it were me with that kind of budget, I would go out and find a decent Corporation 42 and get it refurbished by one of our great techs here on the forum, including a new aftermarket valve.  You could probably do a 42 and 50 with that kind of budget.  If you liked Matt Vaughn's horn, decent chance you'll like a Bach with a new Thayer valve.

But if you want new, make the investment and go to a place where you can try anything you want.  You can go to Dillons while you're on break, or wait until March and try everything available at the American Trombone Workshop in DC.  Is there a time limit you have access to the funds?
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:49AM »

What is the setup on your father's horn?  If you like a Shires, there isn't really much that plays like them otherwise. There are some really fine playing horns that aren't Shires, obviously, but if you like them nothing beats it! I'm in that camp for sure.

If I were being essentially given a horn, I'd buy a flight out to Boston if you can get there.  Its probably not as expensive as you think, although i'm not familiar with eastern european fares.  
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:50AM »

Perhaps you can explain the situation a little better. Are you getting $6000 to do with as you please, or is someone spending up to $6000 on a trombone for you?
Someone spending up to $6000 on a trombone for me.
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:55AM »

What is the setup on your father's horn?  If you like a Shires, there isn't really much that plays like them otherwise. There are some really fine playing horns that aren't Shires, obviously, but if you like them nothing beats it! I'm in that camp for sure.

If I were being essentially given a horn, I'd buy a flight out to Boston if you can get there.  Its probably not as expensive as you think, although i'm not familiar with eastern european fares.  
I could buy another horn for how much i would spend on that also i have to spend the money until January 12th.
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:59AM »

If you are looking to major in classical tenor, look at an alto in addition to a tenor.

If you really want to spend it all, look at an Egger Sackbut.  Problem is there are a lot less places to play it than a regular trombone. ;-)
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 28, 2017, 12:01PM »

If it were me with that kind of budget, I would go out and find a decent Corporation 42 and get it refurbished by one of our great techs here on the forum, including a new aftermarket valve.  You could probably do a 42 and 50 with that kind of budget.  If you liked Matt Vaughn's horn, decent chance you'll like a Bach with a new Thayer valve.

But if you want new, make the investment and go to a place where you can try anything you want.  You can go to Dillons while you're on break, or wait until March and try everything available at the American Trombone Workshop in DC.  Is there a time limit you have access to the funds?
I have to spend it until January 12th and i can't go to the US that easily, i could maybe go to for example Musikhaus Thomann in Germany.
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 28, 2017, 12:07PM »

I have to spend it until January 12th and i can't go to the US that easily, i could maybe go to for example Musikhaus Thomann in Germany.


holy cow, apparently I need to make a trip to Germany   :D  Do you think you can go? It looks like they have a number of horns, including several of the botique hohrns, though I don't know what they carry in stock.  I'd definitely contact theem and see if I could make it up there. 
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 28, 2017, 12:10PM »

I's sorry, I thought you were in the US.  But I still suggest going to a place where you can try as many as you can.  Thomann is the first place I think of.  Plus, with makers like Rath, they have so many different options I'm sure something you like can be put together.
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 28, 2017, 12:43PM »

Buy the most expensive horn you can and sell it. Then buy what horn fits you best.
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 28, 2017, 12:53PM »

I’m waiting for someone to suggest Benge.
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 28, 2017, 01:05PM »

I have to spend it until January 12th and i can't go to the US that easily, i could maybe go to for example Musikhaus Thomann in Germany.

Buy from Thomann. Shipping will be free if you spend that kind of money which means you can spend all the money on the horn, and you can return the trombone later and switch to another if you are not satisfied. They have lots of brands to choose from. I have bought a couple of new horns from them. They pack safe and ship fast within EU and run a serious business. Too bad you have not the possibility to try so you at least have a clue what you like. Personally I would go for a A. Cortouis before a Bach. I did play one new Bach with the "infinity" Thayer and one of the new Cortouis with Hagmann valve this summer at a summers camp. Both these horns were better than my Kanstul 1570. The best horn was the new Cortouis.

/Tom
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« Reply #32 on: Dec 28, 2017, 03:01PM »

I’m waiting for someone to suggest Benge.

Not expensive and also not made any more.

Benge made some really nice instruments but they didn't catch on.
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« Reply #33 on: Dec 28, 2017, 03:10PM »

Not expensive and also not made any more.

Benge made some really nice instruments but they didn't catch on.

I know. It just seems like someone always discourages students from buying high end horns and benge always comes up. My sarcasm didn’t come through...
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« Reply #34 on: Dec 28, 2017, 04:47PM »

I know. It just seems like someone always discourages students from buying high end horns and benge always comes up. My sarcasm didn’t come through...

It's usually me that recommends Benge.  Good horns for a budget.  The OP is not on a budget -- he's got enough money to buy the best.  No need to compromise.
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« Reply #35 on: Dec 28, 2017, 04:55PM »

Just go (fly?) to a shop that has tons of horns and play them all.  Shires, Rath, Yammies, the new Greenhoes - the sky is the limit!  If you are busy, you could send me to do the homework for you!  I will gladly fly coach down to SoCal to visit the Horn Guys!
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« Reply #36 on: Dec 28, 2017, 10:29PM »

fly to Huddersfield and let Mick sort you out. ......
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« Reply #37 on: Dec 29, 2017, 01:46AM »

fly to Huddersfield and let Mick sort you out. ......


You beat me too the suggestion!
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« Reply #38 on: Dec 30, 2017, 09:48PM »

Any reason why you specify the Courtois 420? Did you try the 440? I find it a much more interesting and subtle instrument, personally.

Also if you have that kind of budget why not a boutique horn from a German workshop?
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« Reply #39 on: Jan 16, 2018, 07:13AM »

Guys- One thing to note- when trying horns it my be necessary to try a couple of different moutpieces to take it to the next level.  I see far too many people that think a lead pipe change will make a difference and they try every horn (even ones with fixed lead pipes) with "their" mouthpiece, so don't discount that. In theory and reality, a fixed lead pipe will transmit energy more efficiently than a removeable, so keep that in mind nd be open minded!

cheers!
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« Reply #40 on: Jan 16, 2018, 11:26AM »

Previous comment was too late to the party. OP, what did you end up getting??
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« Reply #41 on: Jan 16, 2018, 01:47PM »

I have never played any of these but I have a plain old time tested Bach 42BO that plays great and works for me.
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« Reply #42 on: Jan 27, 2018, 08:41AM »

Previous comment was too late to the party. OP, what did you end up getting??
T396A
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« Reply #43 on: Jan 31, 2018, 12:03AM »


holy cow, apparently I need to make a trip to Germany   :D  Do you think you can go? It looks like they have a number of horns, including several of the botique hohrns, though I don't know what they carry in stock.  I'd definitely contact theem and see if I could make it up there. 

Another excellent reseller ist Musik Bertram in Freiburg...
http://musik-bertram.com/?load=sortiment

They sell even Schilkes, Shires, Greenhoe
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« Reply #44 on: Jan 31, 2018, 07:03AM »

T396A


Do you like it?
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« Reply #45 on: Feb 07, 2018, 04:37AM »

Do you like it?
Yeah, it arrived today.
Now I have a month to get used to it for my Curtis audition.
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« Reply #46 on: Feb 10, 2018, 07:22AM »

I've found that the "#1" copper pillar placed downwards in the hole closest to the bell (ie, away from the tuning slide) works really well. I get a bit more response and color out of it.

The same pillar, placed in the middle hole and facing upwards, towards the tuning slide, shifts the horn to play a lot more stable. It's like each partial is a deep, straight rail track.

Those pillars are worth trying out.
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« Reply #47 on: Feb 10, 2018, 01:38PM »

I've found that the "#1" copper pillar placed downwards in the hole closest to the bell (ie, away from the tuning slide) works really well. I get a bit more response and color out of it.

The same pillar, placed in the middle hole and facing upwards, towards the tuning slide, shifts the horn to play a lot more stable. It's like each partial is a deep, straight rail track.

Those pillars are worth trying out.
Yeah  I've read some of your posts about them I will be messing with them after my audition.
The thing that is interesting is when you look at Alessi, Toby Oft, Matt Vaughn, Csaba Bencze , just to name a few, they don't use any of them.
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