Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1092575 Posts in 72179 Topics- by 19440 Members - Latest Member: drater421
Jump to:  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: New Hagmann Valve?  (Read 912 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
trombonejb
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Sep 22, 2017
Posts: 28

View Profile
« on: Dec 28, 2017, 09:32AM »

I was researching extra things to put on my hagmann valve (valve caps, tone rings, etc). When I found out there is a new redesign of the hagmann valve that took place in November 2016.

What exactly changed in the redesign? Are some problems fixed/created as a result? Does it play any differently? What are your general thoughts on this redesign?

Pictures can be found in this link

http://www.rathtrombones.com/accessories/heavy-valve-cap/

Thanks and enjoy your day.

~Jack
Logged
daveyboy37

*
Offline Offline

Location: New Jersey, USA
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 4415

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Dec 28, 2017, 07:23PM »

Interesting. Looks like maybe they changed the design to have less surface area on the outside edge, which can make less friction? You'd really need to talk to someone whose taken both apart. Maybe ask Rath directly?
Logged

David Sullivan
Bass Trombone - Livingston Symphony Orchestra
Horns: Bach 39, King 3B, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612RII
MPCS: Faxx 7C, Hammond 11ML, Laskey 59MD, Laskey 85MD.
Blowero

*
Offline Offline

Location: Southern California
Joined: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 1773

View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: Dec 28, 2017, 11:35PM »

Hagmann valve has a spring which pulls the rotor towards the inside spindle. I don't understand what that undercut accomplishes,  as there is no pressure on that outside edge. That cap is only a loose pressure fit; basically just a dust cover. It does not function as a bearing surface.
Logged

Brass repair, modifications, custom parts and instruments

http://brassmedic.com
Horn Builder

*
Offline Offline

Location: Jackson WI
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 1675

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Dec 29, 2017, 06:53AM »

It looks like Hamgann (this was Hagmann, not Rath that made the change) have reduced the sidewall height of the rotor, which may or may not improve the action. It does reduce surface area on the outside face of the rotor. Brad is correct about the cover, it is not a bearing, simply a cover to keep dirt ot and oil in.

M
Logged

Matthew Walker
Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia 1991-2006
Greenhoe Custom Trombones, Technician, Artist, Designer. 2006-2012
Getzen/Edwards Co Technician. 2013-2014
Freelance. May 2014-
Owner, M&W Custom Trombones. LLC. 2015-
Le.Tromboniste
*
Offline Offline

Location: Basel, Switzerland
Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 421

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Dec 31, 2017, 06:10AM »

What I don't get is how that change creates the need for a different cap. As it has been said, there is no contact between the rotor and the cap as the rotor is not level with the edge of the casing anyway, and the cap even curves away slightly from the rotor.
Logged

Maximilien Brisson
blast

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: scotland
Joined: Jul 26, 2001
Posts: 7039
"Bass/Contrabass trombone, Scottish Opera."


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Dec 31, 2017, 06:40AM »

What I don't get is how that change creates the need for a different cap. As it has been said, there is no contact between the rotor and the cap as the rotor is not level with the edge of the casing anyway, and the cap even curves away slightly from the rotor.

Because the revised valve is a different diameter.... simple.Mick told me that himself.

Chris Stearn
Logged

Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
timbone
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 1, 2005
Posts: 138

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Jan 03, 2018, 07:37AM »


Unfortunately, there has been cases where the valve was mis-aligned due to handling, so Rene beefed up the internal casing to resist movement.  The new valve cap sits in a channel and does the job although it is harder to get the cap off as you have to pry it off directly in one effort as opposed to just popping a corner.  Don't forget to lubricate the gasket!

Tim
Logged
blast

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: scotland
Joined: Jul 26, 2001
Posts: 7039
"Bass/Contrabass trombone, Scottish Opera."


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Jan 03, 2018, 08:34AM »

Unfortunately, there has been cases where the valve was mis-aligned due to handling, so Rene beefed up the internal casing to resist movement.  The new valve cap sits in a channel and does the job although it is harder to get the cap off as you have to pry it off directly in one effort as opposed to just popping a corner.  Don't forget to lubricate the gasket!

Tim

I have come across Hagmann valves in the past where the cases are so soft that you could gently squeeze the case and stop the valve movement... let's hope those days are over.

Chris Stearn
Logged

Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
Le.Tromboniste
*
Offline Offline

Location: Basel, Switzerland
Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 421

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Jan 03, 2018, 09:19AM »

I have come across Hagmann valves in the past where the cases are so soft that you could gently squeeze the case and stop the valve movement... let's hope those days are over.

Chris Stearn

Mine (from 2010) has thick enough casing to not have that problem.
Logged

Maximilien Brisson
blast

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: scotland
Joined: Jul 26, 2001
Posts: 7039
"Bass/Contrabass trombone, Scottish Opera."


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Jan 03, 2018, 09:56AM »

Mine (from 2010) has thick enough casing to not have that problem.

They varied... mine are all older examples with great cases and action and an excellent seal. Some were not so good. Quality seems to have improved over time. My daily drivers all have Hagmann valves.

Chris Stearn
Logged

Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: