Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1092575 Posts in 72179 Topics- by 19440 Members - Latest Member: drater421
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, Greg Waits) Bach 50K3. You read that right!
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Bach 50K3. You read that right!  (Read 1728 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quiros

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Alabama
Joined: Feb 16, 2016
Posts: 113

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: Jan 08, 2018, 11:08AM »

Fascinating to actually see one of these. I have a 42K, and the valve size and position doesn't bother me like I thought it would. However, I can't imagine being comfortable with a 2nd valve poking into my neck horizontally like that.
Logged

I just enjoy playing!
M&W 929 dependent bass
King 3BF Silversonic
B&H Imperial E-flat tuba
Bach42BOS

*
Offline Offline

Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 910

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: Jan 08, 2018, 11:53AM »

Wow, there certainly are some douchebags in this thread.
Logged
blast

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: scotland
Joined: Jul 26, 2001
Posts: 7039
"Bass/Contrabass trombone, Scottish Opera."


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: Jan 09, 2018, 04:10AM »

Wow, there certainly are some douchebags in this thread.

There are disagreements in this thread for sure... but you are the first person to insult various un-named forum members.

Not within the TOU and not helpful.

People looking at buying K valve instruments and people looking at buying used and abused trombones have an interesting divergence of opinions here. They, as usual, can choose who to believe.

Chris Stearn

Chief Admin hat on.
Logged

Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
Pre59

*
Offline Offline

Location: Devon UK
Joined: May 26, 2015
Posts: 649

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: Jan 09, 2018, 04:59AM »

Yes... I have a complete beater 50B that is pretty great.

But an instrument in poor condition (including my 50B) is a lot harder to play, and therefore sound good. Especially for someone with a lot less time on the horn.

Bob, could you fill in the (possibly) missing words from this post, I'm not understanding it too well.
Logged

In my reality..
harrison.t.reed
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colorado
Joined: Apr 5, 2007
Posts: 2836
"Spartan Brass Band!"


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: Jan 09, 2018, 05:07AM »

I can (I had to read the comment a few times, too):

"Yes... I have a complete beater 50B that is pretty great sounding, despite being in poor condition.

But an instrument in poor condition (including my 50B) is a lot harder to play, and therefore it is more difficult to make it sound good. "

I don't understand why [  ] was hating on the video. Putting out ideas and work on YouTube is an industrious endeavour. Posting on this thread, myself included, is not industrious.
Logged

"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
bassboneman

*
Offline Offline

Location: Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 1125

View Profile
« Reply #25 on: Jan 09, 2018, 05:33AM »

I have a beater Holton 169.... holes patched in the bell, dents everywhere including the slide.... one of the easiest playing, best sounding instruments I have ever owned... one of my students, after trying it, asked that I never bring it in to a lesson again.... they did not want to be reminded of it ever again !

Chris Stearn
Mine is quite ugly, slide is not A+ - BUT! It does play nicely  Good!
Logged
Pre59

*
Offline Offline

Location: Devon UK
Joined: May 26, 2015
Posts: 649

View Profile
« Reply #26 on: Jan 09, 2018, 05:45AM »

I can (I had to read the comment a few times, too):

"Yes... I have a complete beater 50B that is pretty great sounding, despite being in poor condition.

But an instrument in poor condition (including my 50B) is a lot harder to play, and therefore it is more difficult to make it sound good. "

I don't understand why [  ] was hating on the video. Putting out ideas and work on YouTube is an industrious endeavour. Posting on this thread, myself included, is not industrious.

That's what I thought, just checking. I wondered why BB hadn't corrected it, especially as some members use English as a second language, which might have explained the "flurry" a few posts ago.
Logged

In my reality..
wgwbassbone
*
Offline Offline

Location: West Hartford, CT
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 1882

View Profile
« Reply #27 on: Jan 09, 2018, 05:59AM »

Wow, there certainly are some douchebags in this thread.

Pot calling the kettle black.
Logged

Holton TR 180 MV 1 and 1/2G
Bach42BOS

*
Offline Offline

Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 910

View Profile
« Reply #28 on: Jan 09, 2018, 06:02AM »

There are disagreements in this thread for sure... but you are the first person to insult various un-named forum members.

Not within the TOU and not helpful.


Chris Stearn

Chief Admin hat on.
Really? Iím the first person to insult a member in this thread? Maybe you should read the comments in here again. Not being rude, just calling it as it is.
Logged
Bach42BOS

*
Offline Offline

Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 910

View Profile
« Reply #29 on: Jan 09, 2018, 06:05AM »

Pot calling the kettle black.
Boo-hoo Iím so hurt.
Logged
wgwbassbone
*
Offline Offline

Location: West Hartford, CT
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 1882

View Profile
« Reply #30 on: Jan 09, 2018, 07:42AM »

Really? Iím the first person to insult a member in this thread? Maybe you should read the comments in here again. Not being rude, just calling it as it is.

I admit my comments were rude. But calling me a douchebag will only satisfy your need to be a douchebag. Others who posted here offered some good advice and don't deserve to be called names. Good seasoned advice based on good seasoned experience. That's what we should all be listening to.
Logged

Holton TR 180 MV 1 and 1/2G
CSO

*
Offline Offline

Location: Washington, DC
Joined: Jan 22, 2007
Posts: 26

View Profile
« Reply #31 on: Jan 09, 2018, 08:26AM »

I admit my comments were rude.
Thank you for admitting that.  Prior to your comment we were having a nice conversation.  Let's try to get back to that.

In the 90s I saw a few pros in the DC area using 42Ks, maybe 3 or 4.  These were usually players in one of the service bands who were also top freelancers.  However I never saw anyone using a bass with K valves.  At the very least I give Bach credit for trying something new at the time. 
Logged

"Tone quality is earned. It's not part of the purchase price of ANY bass trombone."  - Mike Suter
Bach42BOS

*
Offline Offline

Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 910

View Profile
« Reply #32 on: Jan 09, 2018, 08:43AM »

I admit my comments were rude. But calling me a douchebag will only satisfy your need to be a douchebag. Others who posted here offered some good advice and don't deserve to be called names. Good seasoned advice based on good seasoned experience. That's what we should all be listening to.
Hey man, itís all good. I know I got out of hand as well and yes, it was a douchebag moment for me too.

No hard feelings here and yes, letís get back to the topic at hand.
Logged
Burgerbob

*
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 5518

View Profile
« Reply #33 on: Jan 09, 2018, 09:13AM »

That's what I thought, just checking. I wondered why BB hadn't corrected it, especially as some members use English as a second language, which might have explained the "flurry" a few posts ago.

Oops! I typed that on my phone. Harrison got the gist of it. Basically just saying that a horn can sound great, but may not be easy to play. In any case, that's quite a strange tangent from my original topic here.

Good seasoned advice based on good seasoned experience. That's what we should all be listening to.

If you have a problem with anything I say in my videos, please let me know directly.


In the 90s I saw a few pros in the DC area using 42Ks, maybe 3 or 4.  These were usually players in one of the service bands who were also top freelancers.  However I never saw anyone using a bass with K valves.  At the very least I give Bach credit for trying something new at the time. 



The 42K seems to have had much more staying power than the 50K3, that's for sure.
Logged

Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50B, ditto
Bach 50B2, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 1.25
Bach 42BG, ditto
Conn 6H, Yamaha 48
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
davdud101
The Kid

*
Offline Offline

Location: Detroit, MI
Joined: Jun 20, 2014
Posts: 1101
"Put yourself in the shoes of the listener."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: Jan 09, 2018, 09:36AM »

Oi, didn't realize this was you/r channel, Burgerbob! Cool stuff, subscriber earned  :D :D
Logged

Don't practice until you get it right.
Practice until you can't get it wrong.
Stan

*
Offline Offline

Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: Mar 2, 2003
Posts: 612

View Profile
« Reply #35 on: Jan 09, 2018, 11:10AM »

@Bob,

Just curious of you've weighed it.  Your vid talks a lot about the weight.  Got any actual numbers compared to your Thayer horn?  I've always thought that 2 K valves would be SERIOUSLY heavy.
Logged
Burgerbob

*
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 5518

View Profile
« Reply #36 on: Jan 09, 2018, 11:49AM »

@Bob,

Just curious of you've weighed it.  Your vid talks a lot about the weight.  Got any actual numbers compared to your Thayer horn?  I've always thought that 2 K valves would be SERIOUSLY heavy.

I will see if my wife's kitchen scales can deal with trombones.

As far as I can tell, it's similar or heavier than my Thayer section, but we'll see!
Logged

Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50B, ditto
Bach 50B2, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 1.25
Bach 42BG, ditto
Conn 6H, Yamaha 48
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
Burgerbob

*
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 5518

View Profile
« Reply #37 on: Jan 09, 2018, 01:03PM »

K valve section: 4.23 pounds. (1.90kg or so)

Thayer valve section: 4.26 pounds. (1.933kg or so)

50B2 valve section: 3.9 pounds. (1.769kg or so)

50B valve section: 2.875 pounds. (1.304kg or so)

Pretty close! The Thayer section is definitely more familiar, so the ergonomics are going to be a little better for me. The K section felt a little less comfortable.

Also interesting is that the 2nd valve and D slide on the 50B2 adds almost exactly a pound to the 50B!
Logged

Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50B, ditto
Bach 50B2, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 1.25
Bach 42BG, ditto
Conn 6H, Yamaha 48
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
bassboneman

*
Offline Offline

Location: Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 1125

View Profile
« Reply #38 on: Jan 14, 2018, 08:11AM »

K valve section: 4.23 pounds. (1.90kg or so)

Thayer valve section: 4.26 pounds. (1.933kg or so)

50B2 valve section: 3.9 pounds. (1.769kg or so)

50B valve section: 2.875 pounds. (1.304kg or so)

Pretty close! The Thayer section is definitely more familiar, so the ergonomics are going to be a little better for me. The K section felt a little less comfortable.

Also interesting is that the 2nd valve and D slide on the 50B2 adds almost exactly a pound to the 50B!
Aidan,

With regard to ergonomics and weight vs. edwards...
Is it the way the triggers function (placement/comfort) that is the detraction?
I have grown so accustomed to the weight of my 454 that when I go to a lighter horn my slide technique suffers due to the lack of counterweight behind me.
Not sure if that makes sense or not... :/
Logged
Burgerbob

*
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 5518

View Profile
« Reply #39 on: Jan 14, 2018, 10:18AM »

Yes, that is definitely part of it. I also love the way my bass sits back!
Logged

Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50B, ditto
Bach 50B2, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 1.25
Bach 42BG, ditto
Conn 6H, Yamaha 48
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: