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Author Topic: Feel.... the real obsession  (Read 1937 times)
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John Beers Jr.

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« Reply #40 on: Feb 07, 2018, 12:42PM »

Further to my last post, personally, I think one of the biggest delusions of modern times is that players can buy articulation, low register, high register, darker/lighter/bigger sounds.... you name it.... anything but have to spend time thinking and working on an instrument .
For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that you can "buy" articulation, just that the difference was there, in the 15x15 showroom, on that particular day with that particular player.

I think you're on to something with regard to the feel, though, both ergonomically and on the face. The horns whose memories are most clear to me are, in particular, a BAC Horn Doctor custom small tenor that I tried out at Dillon's more than a decade ago (when they had just started making horns). Ergonomically, with the curved left hand brace, it was superb, and something about it felt very flexible across registers.

The other one was an Olds Recording, which (again) felt like it was responding so fast thatmy desire to play a particular note had not fully formed by the time that note came out. It was like a religious experience in that regard.

Sound? Yeah, I don't really know what they sounded like in that 10'x15' room with big metal resonators (trombones, trumpets and french horns) on every wall and  the floor, but the feel was something akin to a religious experience.
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"Progress is just another word for making bad things happen faster" - Granny Weatherwax
savio

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« Reply #41 on: Feb 08, 2018, 10:28AM »

I remember when I studied trombone back in the eighties. My teacher told me, "why do you want to change to bigger equipment? You already sound nice and big on what you have" I didnt listen. I believed only my feel and comfort when playing the bigger stuff in my practice room. It felt more easy and I thought it sounded better. 

Many years later I discovered my teacher was absolutely right. Why didnt I listen him? Because of my own stupidity, my feel and my lack of knowledge. I wasnt even able to know how I sounded. Just relayed on feel in my practice room.

One thing is sure, we cant buy sound, articulation, legato. We cant read internet to get sound either.  However we can buy professional knowledge and help to make sure we work the right way. Work is in the end the keyword. And in my case, I should have listen what the professionals say when they stand right beside me....


Leif 
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daveyboy37

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« Reply #42 on: Feb 08, 2018, 03:24PM »

Feel is honestly the most important thing I look for in any type of instrument. You want the instrument to be an extension of yourself, and if it feels detached or out of my control, it's gotta move on.
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David Sullivan
Bass Trombone - Livingston Symphony Orchestra
Horns: Bach 39, King 3B, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612RII
MPCS: Faxx 7C, Hammond 11ML, Laskey 59MD, Laskey 85MD.
bonesmarsh
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« Reply #43 on: Feb 08, 2018, 03:25PM »

The world's authority on playing by feel would likely be Michael Davis, who spent decades onstage with the Rolling Stones and some with Michael Jackson. Multiple levels of ear protection worn? I imagine his gear reelects a very conscious attempt to minimize the effect of the outer aural climate on a horn. THAT is where you appreciate "feel". When the gig is past 120 db, the crowd ( even a small group in a drunken club is deafening) and you can't hear a monitor or the house sound system...then "feel" is everything.

I found to my own horror that road trips with an incredibly beautiful Rath R3F were completely wasted on myself and the audience of drunken R&B dancers. I switched to an all brass Olds Ambassador, the smallest all brass horn I could find, and my problems were over. Multiple levels of ear protection never bothered me after that-- I could feel every pitch 100% accurately just with my head. If it was out-of-tune I could feel it. Couldn't hear it. I could feel it.
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #44 on: Feb 08, 2018, 07:14PM »

The world's authority on playing by feel would likely be Michael Davis, who spent decades onstage with the Rolling Stones and some with Michael Jackson. Multiple levels of ear protection worn? I imagine his gear reelects a very conscious attempt to minimize the effect of the outer aural climate on a horn. THAT is where you appreciate "feel". When the gig is past 120 db, the crowd ( even a small group in a drunken club is deafening) and you can't hear a monitor or the house sound system...then "feel" is everything.

I found to my own horror that road trips with an incredibly beautiful Rath R3F were completely wasted on myself and the audience of drunken R&B dancers. I switched to an all brass Olds Ambassador, the smallest all brass horn I could find, and my problems were over. Multiple levels of ear protection never bothered me after that-- I could feel every pitch 100% accurately just with my head. If it was out-of-tune I could feel it. Couldn't hear it. I could feel it.

Michael Davis probably uses isolating in ear monitors with a great mix. I don't know for sure, but it's likely. Those bands didn't last that long by going deaf.
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johntarr

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« Reply #45 on: Feb 08, 2018, 11:04PM »

I reckon that part of this conundrum is caused by the fact that the trombone is fairly simple and inexpensive to manufacture in comparison with other instruments. The trombone makes it easier to mix materials and experiment with many variables that just arenít feasible with a cello for example. This is both a blessing and a curse, and requires a healthy dose of critical thinking and years of study to master.

Another aspect is that you canít fully separate your senses. If the kinesthetic feels too uncomfortable, it will affect your sound in some way. If youíre truly listening to how your sound communicates your given musical setting and itís not working, that will affect how you feel. Sam put it well,

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That explains the endlessness of all of this equipment search. And some WOWs simply do not fit...for me...in any existing playing situation. My love affair with older Conn TIS instruments is like that. They are...the great ones...WOW cubed every time I play them for a while and settle into their playing characteristics. Then I bring them to almost any ensemble in any style in which I play and feel like "Oh. How come I feel so...isolated? What are all of these other people doing here?" Soloistically? Sure. But I don't spend a great deal of time as a free-to-play-and-sound-any-way-I-want-to-sound soloist. So there it is. back in the case for another few years.

So the Conns feel great in one setting but not in the group. He feels isolated when playing them so they donít feel right.
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The Dynamic Musician Series: Dynamic Stability & Breath, Vols. 1 & 2 "Dynamic Resonance" & "Embodying Deep Practice" Using somatic awareness to better playing.
sabutin

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« Reply #46 on: Feb 11, 2018, 06:03PM »

Those bands didn't last that long by going deaf.

Or...maybe they got so loud because they were going deaf.

S.
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Visit <http://samburtis.com/>. Lots of information on that site in the form of articles plus a link to my method book "Time, Balance & Connections-A Universal Theory Of Brass Relativity" which includes several chapters of the book.
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