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The Trombone ForumTown HallComments and Suggestions(Moderators: rlb, blast, BFW) Politics and Religion sections on the TTF. Keep them or lose them?
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Question: Should the Politics and Religion sections be eliminated from TTF?
Yes - 33 (51.6%)
No - 11 (17.2%)
I don't care - 20 (31.3%)
Total Voters: 64

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Author Topic: Politics and Religion sections on the TTF. Keep them or lose them?  (Read 2225 times)
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bonesmarsh
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« Reply #80 on: Feb 10, 2018, 04:56PM »

Thanks, Bruce. Yes, I accept that the exceptions to the rule get the most attention. There was a recent slaughter from a hotel room in Las Vegas that was all over our news. There was quite a lot of attention given to :" How could one person amass an armoury in their hotel room under the watchful eye of hotel security and every inch being covered by CCTV."
 
I just laughed and thought of the thread here on TTF where a lot of players argued that the most cost effective way of buying a great trombone case would be to pick up a hard shell case for "multiple assault rifles" and adjust the interior foam to fit a bell and slide.

In my mental image of the slaughter I thought of the days leading to the slaughter and hotel security questioning the assailant, and the assailant just laughing and saying: " Band practice."
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #81 on: Feb 10, 2018, 11:09PM »

Marsh, a couple of things to understand about us crazy Yanks.
 
1.  Our US Constitution has an amendment that says "a well regulated militia being necessary for the defense, the right of a citizen to bear arms shall not be abridged".  To some that means you should be able to amass an armory sufficient to equip a division.
 
2.  Many of us like to hunt (I don't).  The hunters among us own firearms.  To some a firearm designed for hunting is sufficient (different firearms for different game).  For some hunting should be like war and the use of a military style weapon is preferred.  Fortunately these people are rather rare.  You may even have a few of them in Canada.
 
The types of discussion that have emerged since the last Presidential election have upset me (and probably a lot of my countrymen).  Please do not judge all Americans by the vocal minority.

The real problem is that we're getting more infantile as far as our ability and inclination to accept and subject our biases to genuine scrutiny, and the fact that many on both sides (all sides, really) who are especially bad about it--who have very little intellectual humility or responsibility or self-awareness about their biases--feel quite comfortable opining and investing in the products of their opining (their dogma), quite often in serious ignorance besides their unmitigated bias. It's a highly toxic, deplorable formula, and we're seeing the fruits get more and more putrescent.
 
But this isn't itself a politics or religion topic, so we should probably either move this part of this topic into PP, or leave this tangent alone.
 
And yes, just a hair over half of us Yanks may understand the kinds of vapidity we can expect from much of the lesser half, but I'm not sure many of us understand it very well either. It's very hard for most people to really empathize and put themselves into others' situations.
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« Reply #82 on: Feb 11, 2018, 01:55AM »


I just laughed and thought of the thread here on TTF where a lot of players argued that the most cost effective way of buying a great trombone case would be to pick up a hard shell case for "multiple assault rifles" and adjust the interior foam to fit a bell and slide.

Yep, that Pelican case has worked out fine. Havenít had any problems on the buses, or ferry. Thereís also a lot of room in those BAM Cello cases. I should be able to get a rifle, shotgun, 2 handguns, and a crapload of ammo into it. Jakob Winter makes some really stylish cases too.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #83 on: Feb 11, 2018, 07:20AM »

Quote
But this isn't itself a politics or religion topic, so we should probably either move this part of this topic into PP, or leave this tangent alone.

Maybe too late to prevent a hijacking--always a risk when you post controversial off-topic subjects.
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #84 on: Feb 11, 2018, 07:49AM »

micro climate///micro mindset  //myopia// perhaps borders  matter  //spoken language //dialects //tribes //family//
moral  compass//belief  streams //early  childhood training //influence  of  media  -printed streamed visual-other//
advertising //big  planet -small planet  //patterns //philosophy//regional  differences  //herd mentality//against the grain//big picture //small  picture//food preferences  //clothing -attire//manners //body language //
music  is  one  thing  perhaps  most  universally  perceived



I find it refreshing to get to know my neighbours. As a young student I was incredibly fortunate to attend two ITA conventions in Nashville, sponsored as a guest of our beloved prof.
He is American, and well connected to the primary source Eastman/Remington folk who now are the legends.
The students were Canadian.

We did not understand any elements of American society in Nashville, at all.
Completely foreign, and not just in the sense of being on the other side of an imaginary line border. To a young person a lot of it was baffling.

Now, almost 35 years later, I remain baffled. Reading the posts here on TTF on subjects other than the trombone completely confuse me, as they must confuse the Brits and other nationals from outside the USA.

I play with many musicians. I know absolutely nothing about their religious beliefs or their political opinions. Yet, to Americans  knowing the business of your neighbours appears to be par for the course, and necessary to know.
Moderators ( American mods, let's be clear) have opinions on handguns here on TTF as I recall.
I spent seven years in the Canadian army, in a tough regiment. I know no Canadians who own weapons. They don't interest me, or the musicians I know-- but from reading TTF, I get the impression that as an American you must have opinions about weapons, religion, and politics

This surprises me, as a Canadian, very much.

I say KEEP all  the message boards. I find them fascinating. I read my national news, and am exposed to foreign ( USA) news through Canadian sources. I find that I get more information about American culture from TTF, than I get from my national Canadian news sources.

If you were a historian and had access to a daily newspaper from the year 1605 ( they didn't exist then, sorry) you would give your left nut to read a current review of the latest Shakespeare production.

I find it enlightening to read the TTF boards ( I don't understand them in the slightest!!) as a foreigner.
It rounds out my spotty information about current American culture.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #85 on: Feb 11, 2018, 08:55AM »

...
music  is  one  thing  perhaps  most  universally  perceived


Profound (and true) statement, DJ.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #86 on: Feb 12, 2018, 02:28PM »

thanks  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Profound (and true) statement, DJ.
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #87 on: Feb 12, 2018, 03:00PM »

EVERYTHING from DJ is profound and true!!!!

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Evil
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« Reply #88 on: Feb 12, 2018, 03:19PM »

EVERYTHING from DJ is profound and true!!!!

 Clever Clever Clever Clever Clever Clever Clever Clever
 Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi
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Evil

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Wilktone

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« Reply #89 on: Feb 13, 2018, 08:51AM »

Looking at the forum statistics that are available, it's clear by number of posts that chit chat is more popular than instruments. Politics is more popular than practicing. Puzzles and games are more popular than helping beginners and returners to trombone.

Personally, I think that this imbalance of non-music related content on a trombone forum is provides unnecessary distraction from the trombone content, but I guess as long as there are TTF staff members willing to put up with that it's not really a big deal.

As far as whether having those boards is good because it give folks a place to "take things outside" or whether it helps develop a culture that distracts from content discussions is an interesting question. There are probably examples of both happening from time to time. If this particular thread is representative, it's very easy for off-topic things from chit-chat (and sub-fora) to get brought into the content areas. Off topic posts are always going to happen, though, and it's up to the moderators to steer it back in some way when it gets out of hand. If it helps them to have a politics or religion board to push users towards, then maybe they're worth keeping.

That said, there are plenty of other places where folks can discuss non-trombone related topic and users can always be directed to go elsewhere for non-music related discussions.

Something else that should be considered is not just the number of posts in a section, but the number of unique views. Years ago, when I was still a member of the forum staff, I asked about getting these stats, but of course never got them. Using what I had access to I tried to come up with numbers to help me get a handle on how users were accessing the forum. I don't have those numbers any longer, but my recollection was that it was similar to what is said is typical of most online fora - 90-9-1.

Approximately 90% of the users of an internet site will never register and never post a topic. Many of those may never even visit the site multiple times. They do an internet search looking for some information and are directed to a forum topic. They read the topic and get what they want and that's their level of involvement. The remaining 10% are registered users of the forum. About 9% will post infrequently. My guess (only a guess, for what it's worth) is that most of that 9% here would be mostly trombone-related posts. The remaining 1% are the regular users. These are the ones who drive most of the activity in the non-trombone related content here.

The staff here might want to think about which users they are interested in catering more too. It's pretty clear that a very active minority of the users of the forum are the ones who are most interested in keeping the non-trombone content boards. Members of the forum staff are probably part of that active minority as well, so if the staff is willing to do the moderating, that's their choice.

Regardless, is it even possible for the staff to lock off topics or close boards without the administrator's assistance?

Dave
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« Reply #90 on: Feb 13, 2018, 10:21AM »

Looking at the forum statistics that are available, it's clear by number of posts that chit chat is more popular than instruments. Politics is more popular than practicing. Puzzles and games are more popular than helping beginners and returners to trombone.

Personally, I think that this imbalance of non-music related content on a trombone forum is provides unnecessary distraction from the trombone content, but I guess as long as there are TTF staff members willing to put up with that it's not really a big deal.

As far as whether having those boards is good because it give folks a place to "take things outside" or whether it helps develop a culture that distracts from content discussions is an interesting question. There are probably examples of both happening from time to time. If this particular thread is representative, it's very easy for off-topic things from chit-chat (and sub-fora) to get brought into the content areas. Off topic posts are always going to happen, though, and it's up to the moderators to steer it back in some way when it gets out of hand. If it helps them to have a politics or religion board to push users towards, then maybe they're worth keeping.

That said, there are plenty of other places where folks can discuss non-trombone related topic and users can always be directed to go elsewhere for non-music related discussions.

Something else that should be considered is not just the number of posts in a section, but the number of unique views. Years ago, when I was still a member of the forum staff, I asked about getting these stats, but of course never got them. Using what I had access to I tried to come up with numbers to help me get a handle on how users were accessing the forum. I don't have those numbers any longer, but my recollection was that it was similar to what is said is typical of most online fora - 90-9-1.

Approximately 90% of the users of an internet site will never register and never post a topic. Many of those may never even visit the site multiple times. They do an internet search looking for some information and are directed to a forum topic. They read the topic and get what they want and that's their level of involvement. The remaining 10% are registered users of the forum. About 9% will post infrequently. My guess (only a guess, for what it's worth) is that most of that 9% here would be mostly trombone-related posts. The remaining 1% are the regular users. These are the ones who drive most of the activity in the non-trombone related content here.

The staff here might want to think about which users they are interested in catering more too. It's pretty clear that a very active minority of the users of the forum are the ones who are most interested in keeping the non-trombone content boards. Members of the forum staff are probably part of that active minority as well, so if the staff is willing to do the moderating, that's their choice.

Regardless, is it even possible for the staff to lock off topics or close boards without the administrator's assistance?

Dave

That is the type of drill-down I was suggesting in my post. It's interesting; very interesting - as many of your other observations and comments are. Some things to think about.


Look at the numbers. Do they justify the continued existence?

I don't buy an argument that it is an embarrassment to any onlookers. If we eliminated every board that was an embarrassment on occasion, then eventually there would be no Forum left.

However, I do buy an argument that moderators might not want the chore of moderating boards such as those. I wouldn't.

And I totally agree with hyperbolica's post below this post.

...Geezer


We may be one of the more accommodating musical Forums. We seem to have a lot of non-trombone players on this Forum, or at least members with whom the trombone is not their principle instrument. I wonder how many "play" trombone to engage in the "other" topics. I'm not judging, just wondering...

I feel that Hyperbolica nailed it when he suggested that we simply ignore those boards we do not like. That's what many of us do. And let's not worry about what others may think of us. They will think of us as they please anyway.

...Geezer
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This is arguably the best of many choices in discussion forums we are fortunate to have available to us today.
Baron von Bone
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« Reply #91 on: Feb 13, 2018, 03:54PM »

Approximately 90% of the users of an internet site will never register and never post a topic. Many of those may never even visit the site multiple times. They do an internet search looking for some information and are directed to a forum topic. They read the topic and get what they want and that's their level of involvement. The remaining 10% are registered users of the forum. About 9% will post infrequently. My guess (only a guess, for what it's worth) is that most of that 9% here would be mostly trombone-related posts. The remaining 1% are the regular users. These are the ones who drive most of the activity in the non-trombone related content here.

Actually I expect most of the 99% are bots looking for whatever their masters sent them to look for, or maybe just seeing if they can get their foot in the door so spam can be posted or something like that. The vast majority of one-time registry types on the forums I've taken a look at are most random strings of characters, not names or handles.
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« Reply #92 on: Feb 13, 2018, 08:41PM »


Actually I expect most of the 99% are bots looking for whatever their masters sent them to look for, or maybe just seeing if they can get their foot in the door so spam can be posted or something like that. The vast majority of one-time registry types on the forums I've taken a look at are most random strings of characters, not names or handles.

Since a person reviews all the applications, true bots generally don't get approved.  Random strings of letters and numbers generally don't answer the questions about trombones etc.  I reject those immediately as well as the ones that "own" cricket, football, or "own" trombones.  Some get a follow up e-mail which the true bots never respond to.  Also anybody named, for example, ABC487 is automatically eliminated.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #93 on: Feb 13, 2018, 09:04PM »

He's talking about visitors.
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