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Author Topic: Olds Recording Trombone  (Read 5136 times)
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trombguy11890

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« on: Nov 21, 2004, 10:02PM »

Are Olds Recording trombones any good or worth any value. Alos, does anyone know any specs on them.
Also what about olds ambassadors, why are there so many on ebay?
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Marching Band owns your Soul!
prototypedenNIS
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 21, 2004, 10:44PM »

You saw the Olds recordings on ebay.... BAH it made it out of my price range.

For me... If I could have only one slide trombone, it would be an Olds recording.  That's my Holy grail.

Ambassadors were intemediate models (I think) and were well built.  They work great for marching band or even jazz.  They're also at youngest built in 1977?

You know back in the day before business started to get in the way of craftsmanship.
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denNIS
Scott Weaver

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« Reply #2 on: Nov 22, 2004, 03:58AM »

The Ambassadors play surprisingly well for jazz. They are dual bore horns, you can get more info on discontinued horns here. http://www.geocities.com/yuenli_low/trombone/discontspecs.html

I got mine off of Ebay about a year ago and paid $84 for it and it is in almost pristine condition. Hardly any wear anywhere on the horn! It was made around 1962. I feel like I just got lucky though, so as always be very cautious when Ebaying.
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JimArcher

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« Reply #3 on: Nov 22, 2004, 05:18AM »

Here's a couple of web sites that deal with Olds trombones.  The catalog will explain the difference between Recordings and Ambassadors - the Amb. are their student-line instruments.  I have two Olds with the f-trigger, my recently acquired Recording sounds far better than the Ambassador model; I use the latter for marching.  The magic year for Olds seems to be 1955 when the plant moved from LA proper to Fullerton.  I have a '50 Super and have played a friend's 60s model; in my opinion, anyway, mine simply sounds better.  The company went out of business about 1977.  A '77 Super sold on eBay a few years ago was was horn No. 1,000,000; if I remember right it sold for well over $1000.  http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds57/olds1957.htm http://ericburger.5u.com/photo5.html
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Jim Archer, an old, old Olds fan
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mark fellows
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 24, 2004, 05:46PM »

I am a real fan of Olds trombones and own an Opera, a Recording a Super and Studio. All really great horns in their own way- I have also owned and sold Olds trombones with valves and they really negatively influenced the way the horns played. If you want a really special horn the straight Recording is probably the most versatile- classical or jazz. The Studio a cutting lead horn, The Super a little more mellow lead, and the Opera a great legit player.
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prototypedenNIS
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 24, 2004, 07:13PM »

so none with f attachments...
do you refer also to the valve trombones... because NOBODY (save maybe Kanstul) makes them as good as they did.
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denNIS
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 24, 2004, 11:19PM »

I do not think anyone makes a valve trombone that inherantly plays in tune and they are all very stuffy in comparison to a straight horn or even most with F attachments. Given this, Olds valve sections were as good as any. I just think a valve trombone is a poor substitute for a real trombone.
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prototypedenNIS
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 25, 2004, 06:23AM »

Quote from: "mark fellows"
I do not think anyone makes a valve trombone that inherantly plays in tune and they are all very stuffy in comparison to a straight horn or even most with F attachments. Given this, Olds valve sections were as good as any. I just think a valve trombone is a poor substitute for a real trombone.

Have you played, or do you just comment generally?

a valve bone is really a separate entity from a slide trombone.  Olds and Reynolds were really the best available in this field.  Mine plays fairly well in tune as any 3 valve instrument would play and isn't stuffy.

 hae played valve trombones tat are really stuffy, Blessing for example was horribly stuffy.  The Bach valve trombone (not the strad) had horrible pitch tendencies and bad valves.

I was advised by Bob Brookmeyer that the pre 73 Conn vbones are excellent, the Bach strad is supposedly good and an Olds or Reynolds is a fine choice.
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denNIS
BGuttman
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 25, 2004, 07:29AM »

Quote from: "prototypedenNIS"
Quote from: "mark fellows"
I do not think anyone makes a valve trombone that inherantly plays in tune and they are all very stuffy in comparison to a straight horn or even most with F attachments. Given this, Olds valve sections were as good as any. I just think a valve trombone is a poor substitute for a real trombone.

Have you played, or do you just comment generally?

a valve bone is really a separate entity from a slide trombone.  Olds and Reynolds were really the best available in this field.  Mine plays fairly well in tune as any 3 valve instrument would play and isn't stuffy.

 hae played valve trombones tat are really stuffy, Blessing for example was horribly stuffy.  The Bach valve trombone (not the strad) had horrible pitch tendencies and bad valves.

I was advised by Bob Brookmeyer that the pre 73 Conn vbones are excellent, the Bach strad is supposedly good and an Olds or Reynolds is a fine choice.


denNIS, I think the issue with valve trombones is one that would apply to any valved instrument.  When you are forced to use quantized sections of tubing, there are certain combinations of partial and valve that are not correct for the pitch.  Slide players simply move the slide a little; you develop your ear and make adjustments.  Trumpet players have slides on both the 1st and 3rd valve loops and you will see the good players adjusting them all the time.  French Horn players learn to adjust with the hand in the bell.  Tuba players usually adjust the 1st valve slide.

But valve trombones don't have moveable valve slides; you set them and forget them.  If you need to make a tuning adjustment, you have to use your lip, which then mucks with your tone.

I do agree that Olds valve sections are excellent.  I have an old Olds Ambassador Euph that has rather raw tone, but the valves are superb.

Incidentally, if you want an additional idol who played valve trombone, check out Brad Gowens.

Btw, don't take offense at any jests about playing valve trombone.  It's much better than playing no trombone at all!
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Bruce Guttman
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prototypedenNIS
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 25, 2004, 09:13AM »

I will check out Brad Gowens, sounds interesting?

Actually the Bach Strad vbone has a finger hook on the 1st valve (maybe the third if not first)

A step in making any valve bone a great horn is adding a trigger system to the valve slides, maybe the front tuning slide.  (I still need to add these)

I do compensate a bit with lip, I had a 6.5AL on it before so I learned to compensate much more than I have to with my Kelly 12c on it now.  I do alot of valve brass so I'm used to doing it anyway.

For a freeblowing valve trombone, I now Miraphone makes a 3 or 4 rotor valve rotary with a .512 bore but the tighter sound is the sound for a jazz valve trombone.
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denNIS
Patfizz21

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« Reply #10 on: Nov 25, 2004, 02:44PM »

Quote
When you are forced to use quantized sections of tubing, there are certain combinations of partial and valve that are not correct for the pitch.

Sotto Voce just came to Madison and I noticed how the euphoniums have their clever trigger for the tuning slide for such problems like the 6th partial (I've never played on that nice of euphoniums).  There is also a trumpet player at the school who has the same thing on his C trumpet for similar open or 2nd valve notes.  Just because trumpet players have the slides doesn't mean that they know what to do with them.  A former GTCYS friend who is now at Rice compensates perfectly for every note, I'm sure you'll be hearing of him in a short amount of time - he's incredible.  In short, it's more about the player using the equipment correctly, or in the first trumpet player's example, spending $200 to play their instrument, without compromise, in tune.  To simply blame the instrument would seem silly, because I don't often hear out of tune professional trumpet players who have to compensate with their embouchure, and their tone doesn't seem to suffer from it either (although their partials aren't as nasty as ours).
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virry

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« Reply #11 on: Nov 25, 2004, 07:44PM »

Olds recording, great horn!!
Mellow sound, excellent for small jazz band.

Bad balance (Front heavy), mouthpiece shank needs adjusting.......
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Virry@Furison Jazz Orchestra

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Orestes
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 25, 2004, 08:42PM »

I really like my Olds Recording. I have had mine since High School. A Loooong time ago. They are very well built, mine went with me through a dozen moves. I used it regularly up until I got my Shires small bore. (the shires was a better jazz lead horn.) The recording has a nice mellow sound, and plays well. My current teacher would like very much to buy it from me. (I told him I would trade him for his Williams 6--He didn't want it THAT much. ) I guess that I am used to front heavy, because it never bothered me. A standard small shank mpc usually works fine. I do have a Faxx 7c what was modified so it fit a bit better. If you have a chance to buy one at a reasonable price, get it. It is a great jazz section instrument, and it can be used for lead, though a good Olds Super is a better horn for that. The Olds Ambassador was their student horn. I understand that the early LA ones were pretty good. The ones in the 70s were apparently really doggy.
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Galen McQuarrie

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prototypedenNIS
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 26, 2004, 01:07AM »

Quote from: "Orestes"
The ones in the 70s were apparently really doggy.

compared to the quality of the rest of their horns, yep.

Compared to what's being produced now... excellent.
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denNIS
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