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Author Topic: Religion - good or bad?  (Read 1186181 times)
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« Reply #10480 on: Apr 28, 2014, 06:12AM »

So here's the deal:
I'm gonna post what I think is interesting regarding religion in this topic, because some others are likely to find it interesting as well (this topic gets quite a few hits).
...
If you can't handle that then don't read it and don't comment. That's what we call playing well with the other children--Sandbox 101. Stop whining about it and trying to prevent others from reading those posts and commenting should they decide to. It's not your place to impose or to project your personal and highly egocentric take upon anyone else.

So the deal is, you continue to behave badly and expect/demand everyone else to "behave better".

Sorry, no.

Just as you can continue to post mindless crap that makes you feel good by bashing others, I can continue to "whine" about it and point out your double standards (like this one) and ask you to at least practice what you preach (or rather berate others for). As much as you like to pretend otherwise, you aren't a moderator. You aren't even an authority.

Basically, if you want things to change, you have to be willing to change. The world isn't just going to respond and comply to your demands because an insecure narcissist makes them. And continuing to do the same thing over and over again, well, it generally accomplishes the same result over and over again. That is a bit of an important principal that science is built on, and is also used quite regularly in logic. You might want to familiarize yourself with it.

Deal rejected. Have a nice day.  :)


ps. if you feel the need to lecture someone about how to play well with others, you are most likely violating that concept by doing so. At best it is essentially "whining" at that point.
« Last Edit: Apr 28, 2014, 10:43AM by B0B » Logged
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« Reply #10481 on: Apr 28, 2014, 10:33AM »

The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert sounds like it's as more about socialization than it is about Christian apologetics (so probably a much better read than many such books, like CS Lewis' The Most Unlikely Convert).
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« Reply #10482 on: Apr 28, 2014, 10:45AM »

The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert sounds like it's as more about socialization than it is about Christian apologetics (so probably a much better read than many such books, like CS Lewis' The Most Unlikely Convert).

Which is suppose to be what, really?

Hey look! I posted a link! Comment on it so that I can then judge the quality of your comments? If you want a number of harrumphs, it looks like the site www.skeptic.com has a forum. Or do they recognize your constant usage of fallacies as well?

Other then attempting to rationalize your own insecurity, what are you trying to do exactly?
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« Reply #10483 on: Apr 28, 2014, 07:27PM »

Wow.  Lots of interest in this thread.  Maybe bvb should repeat some more anti religious nonsense.  There's obviously immense interest.
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« Reply #10484 on: Apr 28, 2014, 08:11PM »

Wow.  Lots of interest in this thread.  Maybe bvb should repeat some more anti religious nonsense.  There's obviously immense interest.

Well, yeah! So many people chomping at the bit for the next gleaming nugget of a link that bvb will post! What will it be?
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« Reply #10485 on: Apr 29, 2014, 04:48AM »

I'm not a fan of Byron's, but he didn't drive me off this thread.  People who were hysterical, angry and smug drove me off the thread and, for the most part, the forum.  Calling no one out.  If the shoe fits.
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« Reply #10486 on: Apr 29, 2014, 05:02AM »

Well, I am a fan of GP's (not because we agree, because IIRC we generally don't). GP's one of those who used to contribute a good deal of substance in here ... before The Great Whining Wave of '07/'08 came in (sometimes just called The Great Whine).
 
He's been missed! as have several others who also became scarce at about that time ...
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« Reply #10487 on: Apr 29, 2014, 05:19AM »

Well, I am a fan of GP's (not because we agree, because IIRC we generally don't). GP's one of those who used to contribute a good deal of substance in here ... before The Great Whining Wave of '07/'08 came in (sometimes just called The Great Whine).
 
He's been missed! as have several others who also became scarce at about that time ...

2007 was 7 years ago.

So again, what are you trying to do here? It's obviously not discussion. You spend too much time attacking other posters and post too many redundant links to actually discuss anything.
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« Reply #10488 on: Apr 29, 2014, 07:00AM »

I was just going to ignore this, and generally that's still The Plan, but it's also presenting an opportunity to discuss the ongoing problem which provides a good demonstration of some of the main issues I tend to raise in here.
 
A key question my fan club poses is how much of an enabler their religious ideologies are to their behavior? It's not just their versions of religion, of course, but do their religious beliefs get them farther along the problem child road? Remember not to reify religion here (i.e. "religion" isn't a Thing Unto Itself, it's really just a set of ideas and behaviors--part of our nature). Also remember to isolate what makes religion religion rather than some other kind of ideology. Is there something about the ideology of religion that enables the sense of entitlement and privilege, and the idea that believers are not only within their ethical rights, but championing a noble cause by imposing those things upon others ("defending" the faith) more than other ideologies? Maybe there's something common to religious and political ideologies that's key here, or maybe that's more a matter of conflating the two?
 
In any case what we're seeing now is a fine demonstration of the kinds of problems (extreme intellectual cowardice transformed into a mutant version of [self]-righteousness) that I'd argue the Dark Side of religion uniquely serves to enable (something about the Ultimate [presumed] Authority and such). It does seem to me that religious thinking serves uniquely well for these kinds of problem-children behaviors--they enable us to be more nasty to each other than we probably would be otherwise. Hard to say, because nationalism goes a long way in that vein as well, but there's a reason even most manifestations of hard core nationalist mentalities seem to appeal ultimately to religious notions.
 
In this case I don't expect any discussion to develop ... just things to think about for when these issues arise in a more discussion-friendly context.
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« Reply #10489 on: Apr 29, 2014, 07:42AM »

A key question my fan club poses is how much of an enabler their religious ideologies are to their behavior?
Actually, no. The question was:

2007 was 7 years ago.

So again, what are you trying to do here? It's obviously not discussion. You spend too much time attacking other posters and post too many redundant links to actually discuss anything.

Believe it or not, most people don't have an issue discussing even their own religion, as long as it is done with respect for the people involved. And really, that could be said for most any topic, not just religion. The problem here isn't  region, but the incessant chant that religious people are intellectually inferior because they have different values then you do. That gets no where except for where we are today.

The simple truth is that logic is no indicator of reality. The very people who elevated it also used it to prove that all things are made of five basic elements.

Neither is science. It can only be proven wrong, not right, and even then that proof only exists in very limited and physical areas.

There is a lot of room that neither area can cover and they leave gaping holes. And beyond that, the sheer variety of different thoughts and beliefs shows how little practical impact they often have. Choosing one value system over another is not necessarily wrong (though you often claim such), and they don't have to be entirely separated either. These are personal choices that can readily be discussed and understood.

But you seem more interested in imposing you own while belittling the other person's choices, which gets into a very different area and has no productive side unless you actually have power to enforce your views. In this case, you don't. Instead you come off like an insecure, pompous, narcissistic ***** who is out to troll and attack others for being different. Basically the second grade playground bully.
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« Reply #10490 on: Apr 29, 2014, 11:09AM »

Actually, no. The question was:

Believe it or not, most people don't have an issue discussing even their own religion, as long as it is done with respect for the people involved. And really, that could be said for most any topic, not just religion. The problem here isn't  region, but the incessant chant that religious people are intellectually inferior because they have different values then you do. That gets no where except for where we are today.

The simple truth is that logic is no indicator of reality. The very people who elevated it also used it to prove that all things are made of five basic elements.

Neither is science. It can only be proven wrong, not right, and even then that proof only exists in very limited and physical areas.

There is a lot of room that neither area can cover and they leave gaping holes. And beyond that, the sheer variety of different thoughts and beliefs shows how little practical impact they often have. Choosing one value system over another is not necessarily wrong (though you often claim such), and they don't have to be entirely separated either. These are personal choices that can readily be discussed and understood.

But you seem more interested in imposing you own while belittling the other person's choices, which gets into a very different area and has no productive side unless you actually have power to enforce your views. In this case, you don't. Instead you come off like an insecure, pompous, narcissistic ***** who is out to troll and attack others for being different. Basically the second grade playground bully.
Bingo!
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« Reply #10491 on: Apr 30, 2014, 02:25AM »

But you seem more interested in imposing your own while belittling the other person's choices, which gets into a very different area and has no productive side unless you actually have power to enforce your views. In this case, you don't. Instead you come off like an insecure, pompous, narcissistic ***** who is out to troll and attack others for being different. Basically the second grade playground bully.

Yep.
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« Reply #10492 on: Apr 30, 2014, 05:55AM »

Would have been more timely a week ago ...

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« Reply #10493 on: Apr 30, 2014, 06:17AM »

Would have been more timely a week ago ...
That's not even remotely accurate.

So again, what are you trying to do here? It's obviously not discussion. You spend too much time attacking other posters and post too many redundant links to actually discuss anything.
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« Reply #10494 on: Apr 30, 2014, 08:29PM »

That's not even remotely accurate.

So again, what are you trying to do here? It's obviously not discussion. You spend too much time attacking other posters and post too many redundant links to actually discuss anything.
He needs an intervention.  Seriously.
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« Reply #10495 on: Apr 30, 2014, 08:50PM »

But you seem more interested in imposing you own while belittling the other person's choices,

SEEM???!!!
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« Reply #10496 on: May 01, 2014, 04:23AM »

The membership roster of my fan club honors me--the complaints affirm my sense of judgment and demonstrate many of the points I make regarding religion and about critical thinking and intellectual integrity.
 
I appreciate the pile-on ... it's a pile of badges of honor.
 
You're very kind, all of you. I realize that's not what you're going for of course, and some of you may not understand this post (at least one will probably pretend not to, compounding the favor), but your disapproval is appreciated just the same.
 
It truly honors and humbles me.
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« Reply #10497 on: May 01, 2014, 05:08AM »

SEEM???!!!
For someone who lives in fantasy land as much as Byron does, it's a bit hard to say for certainty. He might truly believe the crap he spews and thinks he does everyone a kind service by mindlessly badgering them with his empty hypocrisies.

He could also believe he's a magical fairy princess.

Mostly he needs some good help and maybe drugs.
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« Reply #10498 on: May 01, 2014, 07:43AM »

The membership roster of my fan club honors me--the complaints affirm my sense of judgment and demonstrate many of the points I make regarding religion and about critical thinking and intellectual integrity.
 
I appreciate the pile-on ... it's a pile of badges of honor.
 
You're very kind, all of you. I realize that's not what you're going for of course, and some of you may not understand this post (at least one will probably pretend not to, compounding the favor), but your disapproval is appreciated just the same.
 
It truly honors and humbles me.
Are you really an ******?  Your narcicissm has reached an entirely new level. 
And your stupid references to religon?  This isn't about religon.  Your "fans" are not all religous.  You're not even paying attention. You're like a broken record.  Someone needs to pull the plug.
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« Reply #10499 on: May 01, 2014, 08:06AM »

Are you really an ******?  Your narcicissm has reached an entirely new level. 
And your stupid references to religon?  This isn't about religon.  Your "fans" are not all religous.  You're not even paying attention. You're like a broken record.  Someone needs to pull the plug.

It's just very strong a defensive reaction known as denial. Nothing more.
http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/ss/defensemech_3.htm
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Denial is probably one of the best known defense mechanisms, used often to describe situations in which people seem unable to face reality or admit an obvious truth (i.e. "He's in denial."). Denial is an outright refusal to admit or recognize that something has occurred or is currently occurring. Drug addicts or alcoholics often deny that they have a problem, while victims of traumatic events may deny that the event ever occurred.

Denial functions to protect the ego from things that the individual cannot cope with. While this may save us from anxiety or pain, denial also requires a substantial investment of energy. Because of this, other defenses are also used to keep these unacceptable feelings from consciousness.

In many cases, there might be overwhelming evidence that something is true, yet the person will continue to deny its existence or truth because it is too uncomfortable to face.
Or in Byron speak, it would generally be referred to as Intellectual CowardiceTM. Kinda like many self-help book authors, he's the poster child of what he says NOT to do. He knows he should do better, hence why he tells everyone else, but he can't accept the reality himself. That also likely explains why he's so stuck on this subject.

Mostly he probably needs psychological care.
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