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[Stretch Longarm]

Do you see no difference between a personal chat group, there purpose of which is to exchange personal opinions, and business correspondence, with a salesman representing a company to clients?

I choose to do business with this COMPANY.  The COMPANY provides good service and a choice to move my business to another COMPANY would involve 6 month's work and a quarter million dollars. 

So in effect, I have no real option to take my business elsewhere and they have assigned this salesman to my account.  My options are:

1) Ignore it, as the salesman does a good job for us.

2) Privately express my feelings to the salesman.

3) Privately express this concern to the President of the company.

4) Ask for a different salesman without saying why.

I choose #1.  Such is the nature of bullying.  Bullies know that people will rarely stand up to them.  But let's recognize it for what it is.  It is entirely inappropriate behavior in a business setting.  It is no different than if when I visit that business, I compliment the receptionist on how good her boobs are looking.  The business probably would choose not to confront me about that for the same reasons as I listed above.

It is about manners.

Whose manners? Do you mean your good manners at not commenting about boobs, or the good manners the salesman lacks by including the religious text in his email?

I am not like you, I'd do #2. I toss that stuff right back at them and call them on it as inappropriate - customer or not - and invariably they bow out, sometimes obsequiously. As you say, bullies are mostly bluff. None of that crap - religion, politics, sexual innuendos, belongs in business settings. Period. I don't care if it addresses social issues, cures dandruff or promotes First Amendment Rights, it just is not the place for it. I can make that quite clear without being an ass or antagonizing someone. Usually i get an apology.

[actikid]

It was started by a guy named R. Stanley Tam, who at one time offered his struggling business to God.  Apparently God came through and his States Smelting and Refining took off.

If the business represented itself that way -- wore religion on its "corporate sleeve" so to speak -- I would have looked for another company at the outset of this relationship.  That is not because I have any trouble working with Christians or people of any other faith.  I just don't think that is an appropriate thing in the business relationship and it makes me seriously question the company's judgment.  If they do that, what else will they do that will be in poor judgment?

But my situation is a little different.  The company has never indicated anything of the sort, but they permit an employee to use company email as an advertisement for his religious doctrine.

[actikid]

Whose manners? Do you mean your good manners at not commenting about boobs, or the good manners the salesman lacks by including the religious text in his email?

The question is which of us would require the most constraint? 

I am not like you, I'd do #2. I toss that stuff right back at them and call them on it as inappropriate - customer or not - and invariably they bow out, sometimes obsequiously. As you say, bullies are mostly bluff. None of that crap - religion, politics, sexual innuendos, belongs in business settings. Period. I don't care if it addresses social issues, cures dandruff or promotes First Amendment Rights, it just is not the place for it.

Taken under advisement.

I can make that quite clear without being an ass or antagonizing someone.

You are probably more tactful than I.  I do have a social engagement with the salesman later this week.  I'll think if there is a way I can "educate" or "sensitize" him without damaging the relationship.  I'm not looking for an apology and I don't want to hurt his feelings.

After all, I don't want to be the subject of a post on the salesman's chat board entitled "You won't believe the crap I have to put up with from my clients." 

[Stretch Longarm]

The question is which of us would require the most constraint?  :)Taken under advisement.You are probably more tactful than I.  I do have a social engagement with the salesman later this week.  I'll think if there is a way I can "educate" or "sensitize" him without damaging the relationship.  I'm not looking for an apology and I don't want to hurt his feelings.

You might try a tact like "Hey, Larry, i just wanted to mention that while I don't take offense at the religious crap message you have on your email signature, there is a policy at my company and many of our customer's/vendors companies that don't allow the discussion/representation of religious, political, or sexual views in company communications...it may be a good idea for you to be careful about that - you never know who might take offense." or such. You can be more direct or pander a bit, your choice. Chances are, if put softly, he will take the hint. If he's true to his expressed beliefs, he won't hold it against you. If he's just a spouting ass, he might though! 

[actikid]

You might try a tact like "Hey, Larry, i just wanted to mention that while I don't take offense at the religious crap message you have on your email signature, there is a policy at my company and many of our customer's/vendors companies that don't allow the discussion/representation of religious, political, or sexual views in company communications...it may be a good idea for you to be careful about that - you never know who might take offense." or such. You can be more direct or pander a bit, your choice. Chances are, if put softly, he will take the hint. If he's true to his expressed beliefs, he won't hold it against you. If he's just a spouting ass, he might though! 

Thank you.  I'll give that some thought.

[Baron von Bone]

This does seem to be a very common pattern ...
 

[Baron von Bone]

 
Those are my two thumbs up of sarcasm FWIW

Seems any critical comment regarding something certain people favor will be perceived as bashing.
 
It's criticism bashing!
 
 ... or, better, integrity bashing.

[Baron von Bone]

You might try a tact like "Hey, Larry, i just wanted to mention that while I don't take offense at the religious crap message you have on your email signature ...

Please ... how utterly useless. This "solution" is only pertinent if you happen to be doing business with Larry.
 
--
 
Sorry. Just channeling my inner Wingnut there (it doesn't get out much, so it sometimes tries to assert itself by mimicry--anything else is immediately beaten down upon discovery ... poor thing).

[Stretch Longarm]

Please ... how utterly useless. This "solution" is only pertinent if you happen to be doing business with Larry.
 
--
 
Sorry. Just channeling my inner Wingnut there (it doesn't get out much, so it sometimes tries to assert itself by mimicry--anything else is immediately beaten down upon discovery ... poor thing).

Well, considering Larry's well-known penchant for mindless flaunting of rhetoric, your reaction is understandable.

[actikid]

A song about superpowers.

Please note that it was cut from the broadcast.  Mustn't take any chance of offending the believers.  You never know what they might do.  After all, they believe in Woody Allen Jesus.

[actikid]

Another week.  Another batch of sexual predators brought to you by your church.  Nothing to see here folks.  Just another week in family-values-land.

Belfast

Chicago

Monterey, MX

Dublin

London

Netherlands

Georgia

Colorado

Los Angeles

Phildelphia and apparently the tip of the iceberg.

Delaware


10,000 to 20,000 minors molested in the Netherlands?

[actikid]

If you thought the crazies were in control of Israel, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Imagine 1000 Reverend Phelpses running around everywhere and that would look a lot like the direction of Israel.

[BGuttman]

Israel is the antithesis of the 2-party system.  In fact, it's probably more like Italy.  There are a bunch of little squabbling entities, none of which can get a majority by itself.  They try to form coalitions in order to form a government (it's a Parliamentary system).  There are a couple of ultra-religious groups that formed parties (even though the ultra-religious don't really believe Israel should be a separate nation) and they have a very one-sided view of what needs to happen.

They want a Jewish Taliban.  They even prevented the buses in Jerusalem from traveling through their neighborhood on Saturdays.

Most Israelis I know hate these ultra-religious groups; most Israelis are pretty casual about religion and really don't want to outlaw any religious group (including Muslims).  But the ultra-orthodox groups can put them close to the edge.

[Baron von Bone]

[Baron von Bone]

The Telegraph: Tim Minchin song mocking Christ pulled from Jonathan Ross' Christmas special

[actikid]

The Telegraph: Tim Minchin song mocking Christ pulled from Jonathan Ross' Christmas special

It is a problem to have one song that mocks the peculiar dogma of Christianity, but it is no problem to have thousands of Christian hymns that mock reality.

The War Against Reason wages on.

[gpkimzey]

I find the song both funny and unnecessarily "in your face."  I wouldn't endorse or watch it, but I am strongly against all forms of censorship, so I'd not pull it either.

[actikid]

I find the song both funny and unnecessarily "in your face."  I wouldn't endorse or watch it, but I am strongly against all forms of censorship, so I'd not pull it either.

I am also against censorship where a statement or protest is not doing harm to anyone.

between gigs today, I got a quick lunch at Arby's.  I had a few minutes in the car to catch up on some work-related emails and I kept hearing this fully sound -- yelling or cheering -- I couldn't tell what it was.

As I drove off I saw that a collection of kids were standing on two nearby corners yelling at drivers-by showing big signs talking about how Jesus will cure any disease the drivers might have.

They weren't hurting anybody.  I strongly support their right to make such a statement.

[Baron von Bone]

Taxpayer-Funded ‘Crisis Pregnancy Centers’ Tell Jewish Woman To Convert To Christianity Or Go To Hell
 
 ... among other such nonsense.
 
Are these "clinics" an example of the social services DD was arguing the church provides that justify their tax-free ride (well, not arguing, actually ... maybe he knew the argument would fail any scrutiny and was stronger as a threat than if tested)?

[Baron von Bone]

Atheism 2.0
 
Methinks Mr. de Botton is just a few generations (or so?) ahead of the curve on where mainstream religion is already heading (at least Western Christianity) ... if our luck and the pattern both hold, anyway.
 
Good shite though! ... overall.