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Author Topic: Trombone Effects  (Read 3730 times)
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getzenguy

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« on: Nov 30, 2005, 08:37PM »

So I've talked with some guys about using effects (ie. guitar effects) with my mic'd bone. Looked a bit on here and couldnt find too many specifics. How exactly would I go about hooking this up?   I know i'm being vague, but I dont really know where to start... well i do, but... oh well, just help me out if you can. Thanks guys and gals...
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 01, 2005, 01:32AM »

The input of the effects box should have a mic input and not one just for guitar. It will still work, but things like impedance, voltage levels etc may not be optimum.

I use an elderly Zoom 9001. It is a bit noisy, but lots of fun. I plug the mic into the effects box and plug the effects box into the amp/mixer.

Have fun!
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WaltTrombone
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 01, 2005, 06:47AM »

You may want to check out the Yamaha Silent Brass big effect studio thingie, I think it's the ST-5. All sorts of EQ, delays, chorus, distortion, auto-wah, multiple intervals above & below the note you play. It's designed to use mic-level inputs, and has line level out, so it'll handle preamping for you too. Small package, too, only about as big as a Blackberry. Worth a look, at least!

I think Irv Karan (slidebone.com) has them on his website, in the mute section, or you can check your local dealer.
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Walter Barrett
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 01, 2005, 12:25PM »

I have used a boss octave pedal quite a bit, and it sounds great with the trombone.
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king5b
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 01, 2005, 12:54PM »

Check out the Digitech 300 Vocal Effects

http://www.digitech.com/products/vocal300.htm
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slideadvantage
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 07, 2005, 06:50PM »

Quote from: "getzenguy"
So I've talked with some guys about using effects (ie. guitar effects) with my mic'd bone. Looked a bit on here and couldnt find too many specifics. How exactly would I go about hooking this up?   I know i'm being vague, but I dont really know where to start... well i do, but... oh well, just help me out if you can. Thanks guys and gals...



I think the expert in this teaches trombone at Berklee (Boston).  His name is Tom Plsek

From his website:

Performances with Jerry Hunt, the Phil Wilson Trombone Ensemble, the Merce Cunningham Dance Company, the Experimental Intermedia Foundation, and New Music America

Featured soloist on the CD Jump or Die, performed by the groups Splatter Trio and Debris and devoted to the compositions of Anthony Braxton, and Firehouse Futurities with drummer Gino Robair and woodwind performer Steve Norton

Presenter at the International Trombone Workshop, the New York Brass Conference, and the New England Brass Convention

Member, the Mobius Artists Group
Trombonist and Brass Department chair Tom Plsek is known for composing and performing solo and ensemble pieces that embrace both improvisation and technology. He has performed with artists such as Jerry Hunt, Malcolm Goldstein, Joseph Jarman, Phil Niblock, Joe Morris, and Marjorie Morgan. He has also appeared with the Phil Wilson Trombone Ensemble, the Merce Cunningham Dance Company, Experimental Intermedia Foundation, the Outsider Quartet, and New Music America. Tom is a member of Mobius, an artist-run center for experimental media located in Boston.
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getzenguy

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« Reply #6 on: Dec 07, 2005, 07:44PM »

Thanks for all the help - lookin' it all up. I'm thinkin I'm just gonna run line in through a synthesizer. Would that work alright?
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WaltTrombone
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 07, 2005, 08:56PM »

Most synths don't have a line in. Those that do, like the Minimoog and ARP 2600 (which should tell you haw dated my info is!), don't work that well for processing the trombone sound, except for doing filtersweeps and stuff like that. The ARP has an envelope follower that can supposedly track your attacks and such, but it doesn't work that well. I can't think of a digital synth offhand that will process external audio.

Try doing a Google search for Monique Buzzarte, she does some cool stuff live with a laptop processing her sound, mostly time delay type effects.
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josh roseman

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« Reply #8 on: Dec 07, 2005, 11:07PM »

It's a vast question with no specific answer...  
here's a basic primer-
Mics:  you need some way of mic'ing your instrument, either through a pickup, an electrified mute or a microphone.  no right or wrong method there,  just different sounds, with different advantages.  

You may or may not need to use a preamp to bring your mic's signal up to line level, depending on the effects, the mic and how picky you are about sound.  There are some decent inexpensive mic pre's out there that you can use onstage.   You may also be able to get by going commando- just plug in  a 1/4" adaptor for your mic cable.

Effects- the basics:
harmonizers (octave pedals, "intelligent" harmony boxes, etc)
time-modulation FX like flangers and chorus pedals which make you sound like you're being doubled, kind of subtle and pretty-  
phase shifters which also kind of color your sound and make it move
delays and reverbs
distortion and overdrive pedals (watch out for feedback)
filter FX like wah wahs and synth filters.  
There are stompboxes, studio effects, synths, computer plugins, vintage pieces- and you have the whole digital vs. analog thing to consider down the line.  again, no right or wrong answers, just stuff to try out.  
You can read  up on this stuff at any guitar forum, at harmonycentral.com or at a stompbox forum like musictoyz.com- or you can seach here some more.

If you don't know much about signal processing, one idea is to get a digital multieffects unit first so that you can start working with a wide variety of presets right away.  when you've developed an idea of the sound you want to create, you can start thinking about breaking out of the one-box solution if you like.  
you usually get better results combining a bunch of specialised FX... and there's more flexibility in being able to tweak your settings on the fly.

Try to get ahold of a way to record yourself, it'll make it easier to experiment and make sure that your signal path is working properly- try to get the sound together before you use this stuff onstage...
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 11, 2005, 09:46PM »

If i wanted to hook up a wah electric trombone, could I just play through a guitar wah?  would it sound better with a vocal effects box?

anyone know what Mark Mullins of Bonerama uses? his wah trombone is the kind of sound i'm goin for, but i'm clueless as to anything that doesn't work with air.  thanks for any help at all possible

-Nadav
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getzenguy

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« Reply #10 on: Dec 13, 2005, 04:26PM »

Thanks for the info guys, except Santeria53. I'll look into getting a multieffects unit. Sounds like the easiest way for me break out into this venture. Right now I'm using an AT pro70, with an LMXR to 1/4' cable, and a 1/4' adapter into my laptop. So... what types of programs could I use on my computer to maybe do some of this?      And then to get the sound, I would hafta run my computer to a preamp, right?    Thanks again guys,
Jay
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getzenguy

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« Reply #11 on: Dec 13, 2005, 04:28PM »

XLRM, not LMXR, haha.
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 13, 2005, 05:51PM »

Robin Eubanks does a lot of great stuff with effects.  You might email him and ask him what he is using.

Miles Davis actually at one point during his carreer used a mouthpiece with a pickup bored into the shank.  I believe it helped him in using effects pedals that were designed for the low volumes of electric guitars before they are amplified.

I don't know if anyone uses or has ever used a trombone mouthpiece with a pick up in it, but maybe it is something to look into.
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 14, 2005, 07:55AM »

Quote from: "getzenguy"
Thanks for the info guys, except Santeria53. I'll look into getting a multieffects unit. Sounds like the easiest way for me break out into this venture. Right now I'm using an AT pro70, with an LMXR to 1/4' cable, and a 1/4' adapter into my laptop. So... what types of programs could I use on my computer to maybe do some of this?      And then to get the sound, I would hafta run my computer to a preamp, right?    Thanks again guys,
Jay


I've done sound recording and reinforcement for 20 years... THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO IS USE YOUR LAPTOP...

It's a major rule. Why? Computers aren't reliable. If you find yourself on a gig and it crashes, not only you loose your effects but you can give the soundman a major headache. There are some pretty amazing low price microphone preamps outhere that gives you the line signal that you can feed any hardware based effects processor.

Here's my set-up I'd suggest  to you.

Get a Audiotechnica ATM-35 microphone. Sweetest of all clip on mics on the market.
ART as a little tube preamp called the V3... it's under 100$ street price and it gives truly "honest" performance. You hook the mic into the V3. Then, you get a good sound processor like the TC Electronics Fireworx that gives good performance. Also you could check out some manufacturers like Lexicon, Yamaha... and the list goes on. Many of them offer a good selection of gear that might be for your needs. You Split the sgnal out of the V3. One goes directly to the sound effect processor and the other goes directly to a mixer. This way you can play with the balance of your clean and processed sound more easily.

You can also get a midi foot contoler with pedals on it that will let you control volume, pitch, wah-wah...or anykind of parameter you assign to it.

The most important thing is that you want to avoid noise. The quality of your cabling is also very important. The less quality you put in it, the more noise you get.

There no real simple answer to your question because their can be so many ways of doing processed sound. But the way I've described to you is a effective set up that I've been working with for a while and it really works well. I've done this set up for a sax player in a fuzion group I follow on tour. It never failed.
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Jean-François
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getzenguy

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« Reply #14 on: Dec 14, 2005, 02:57PM »

Awesome, thanks, I'll look into that... and maybe when I have some more cash...                    My trumpet-playing friend is looking for a cheap way to get into using an octave pedal deal.... any thoughts?
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Friend, you know that you do like this to result in for me very great damage?I am very sad, my expenses is expensive, if do not want the item, pleasing 1:00 loss that you pay the GBP10 to reduce me.Ask you to comprehend a get hurt boon of mood.Thanks!
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 14, 2005, 05:44PM »

You can get into this stuff quite cheaply.  Pick up an old pedal or two (Boss Stereo Chorus CE-3 or, for your friend, the OC-2) on Ebay. They're well under a hundred bucks.

Your AT70 probably won't work too well for this, though.  Get a proper entry-level dynamic stage mic like the Shure SM57 (also under a hundred bucks; you'll always find a use for it!) and something like that ART pre-amp that J-F mentioned above.  You'll need lots of gain, especially as you're splitting the signal at the pedal into a wet and dry version of your sound.

The effects are subtle but compelling.  Check out J.J.'s "Lament" on the Yokohama Concert (I hope it made it to CD), from the mid-70's.  He's using that gently chorused, phase-shifted effect against a classic Rhodes (Billy Childs, I think).

Analog heaven!  And the tastiest "Lament" I've heard.

Barry
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 01, 2012, 02:46PM »

Here is what my set up is like: Shires Trombone into a dynamic Senheisser MD421-II, then plug the male xlr into the mic and the 1/4in input into my Boss GT-3 guitar multi effects processor, this then has a stereo out put which I have carefully set to sound like a  Leslie Amp, which goes into my PA system.  Your best bet is to keep all equalizers flat until you find your own sound, PLAYING TROMBONE THROUGH EFFECTS IS GREAT USEFUL TOOL BUT IT IS ALSO LIKE LEARNING ANOTHER INSTRUMENT SO BE PREPARED TO TURN NOBS AND PLAY FOR HOURS BEFORE YOU GET THE SOUND YOU WANT...The Boss GT-3 has been great it has more effects than you will ever need to use on trombone and reasonable price and easy to adjust settings...GOODLUCK!!
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