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Author Topic: Chinese trombone ??  (Read 2585 times)
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lou2cv

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« on: Jan 19, 2006, 05:21AM »

Hi !

What do you know and think about this trombone ? It looks like a King dual trigger, but King aren't made in China... Don't know  And the price is very low. Confused  Amazed

http://cgi.ebay.fr/First-rate-admirable-musical-instrument-copper-trombone_W0QQitemZ7382444212QQcategoryZ621QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Fuzzy
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 19, 2006, 05:32AM »

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE AT ALL EVEN CONSIDER GETTING THAT!!

I got one of thos Maestro CHinese horns with looked like an 88h, and was so happy with how cheap it was.... 3 weeks later i realized my mistake, trigger falls off...

It is easy to produce these horrible instruments in China, so these get completely ignored by the smarter players. Better off getting a good used intrument then these.
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Firas el Achkar.

The size of a bass trombone has an inverse relationship with the size of the owner's penis.

Say NO to slide tubas!
lou2cv

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« Reply #2 on: Jan 19, 2006, 06:27AM »

OK, thanks ! I didn't want to buy one, but i just wondered how good these horns are. :)  Now, I know !
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HuskerTX

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« Reply #3 on: Jan 19, 2006, 06:45AM »

Agreed...

This is a scam anyway. Notice the description doesn't even say it's a trombone. The grammar is horrible, the seller has zero feedback (brand new), and the picture is a picture of a King bass from the manufacturer.

Don't give it a second thought.
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The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music... they should be taught to love it instead.
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lou2cv

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« Reply #4 on: Jan 19, 2006, 08:54AM »

I have noticed that the seller doesn't  say the brand anywhere.
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lou2cv

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« Reply #5 on: Jan 19, 2006, 08:56AM »

And what about OLDS trombones ? Good or bad ? I mean old models, not new. Sorry for the grammar, I'm French.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #6 on: Jan 19, 2006, 09:21AM »

Quote from: "lou2cv"
And what about OLDS trombones ? Good or bad ? I mean old models, not new. Sorry for the grammar, I'm French.


The Olds company got their reputation making excellent trombones for the Studios in California (after the advent of Talking Pictures).

Very old Olds trombones are wonderful, if small bore, trombones.  I'm talking about the ones with tuning in the slide, mostly made between 1912 and 1930.  I say this from experience since I have one.

Olds trombones from the 1930's and 1940's are also good.  The Ambassador was a student horn, but better than many.  The Super, Studio, and Recording are all great horns for jazz.

Los Angeles trombones are considered more desirable than Fullerton trombones, and horns made more recently than about 1970 may have an Olds name on them but aren't really Olds trombones.

You may find that an Olds trombone has a very different sound from more modern instruments.  I remember Tom Mathis (retired from the LA studios) talking about how the contractor he was playing his Olds for complaining about the "dated" sound it made.

Votre anglais va mieux que mon francais!
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Bruce Guttman
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Pieter
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 19, 2006, 09:27AM »

Quote from: "ABinkard"
Agreed...

This is a scam anyway. Notice the description doesn't even say it's a trombone. The grammar is horrible, the seller has zero feedback (brand new), and the picture is a picture of a King bass from the manufacturer.

Don't give it a second thought.


It may not be a good instrument , but it might also not be a scam. There is a Chinese copy of the King 7B or 8B being made which looks exactly like the real one. King does not make the 7B anymore and does not have pictures of the 7B on their website anymore. The pictures from Benge are very different from these and have some nickel silver tubing. Might be horrible. Very small chance it's ok for the price, no way of telling but playing it.
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shaoanator
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 19, 2006, 11:52AM »

Quote

China has had many 100ís of years to develop an exceptional culture, which was created by the skilful and meticulous Chinese craftsman. There are many unique and rare collections in every dynasty. They are unique bright pearls in our long history.


hmm, i never knew chinese culture was created by craftsmen, and i never new that ANY dynasty ever used the trombone.

stuff like thise make me ashamed to be chinese.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #9 on: Jan 19, 2006, 02:53PM »

Quote from: "shaoanator"
Quote

China has had many 100ís of years to develop an exceptional culture, which was created by the skilful and meticulous Chinese craftsman. There are many unique and rare collections in every dynasty. They are unique bright pearls in our long history.


hmm, i never knew chinese culture was created by craftsmen, and i never new that ANY dynasty ever used the trombone.

stuff like thise make me ashamed to be chinese.


I don't mean to slam you, Shoanator, but after listening to a lot of radio programs from China these past 2 weeks (NPR's Marketplace) I get a feeling that the New China is amoral.  Not immoral, which implies that people do bad things they know are wrong, just that they don't know (or care) what is right.

I would expect them to put in a description anything that will get bids.  Calling the TSO a Burkle Conn or Shires gets bids.  Put a picture in; doesn't matter what.  If you have a description that worked, use it again, even if it isn't relevant.  At the end, you send your TSO.  If they squawk, you just say "You bought trombone, I ship trombone.  What is problem?".
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Bruce Guttman
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Johnny_verhoeven
If the slide moves it is a good trombone

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« Reply #10 on: Jan 19, 2006, 03:05PM »

Quote from: "Lebanese Bass Bone"
DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE AT ALL EVEN CONSIDER GETTING THAT!!

I got one of thos Maestro CHinese horns with looked like an 88h, and was so happy with how cheap it was.... 3 weeks later i realized my mistake, trigger falls off...

It is easy to produce these horrible instruments in China, so these get completely ignored by the smarter players. Better off getting a good used intrument then these.


I guess the quality control is not good yet. I have a Maestro to. Mine is quite good, superb even if you consider I only paid $90 for it.
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Johnny Verhoeven

Jupiter Soprano
Stagg Alto
B&H small bore tenor
Maestro medium bore
Yamaha YSL356G
Boosey G-Bass (show piece in the living)
Edwards Bass (BigBand - my main job)
Fuzzy
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 19, 2006, 06:03PM »

Quote from: "BGuttman"
Quote from: "shaoanator"
Quote

China has had many 100ís of years to develop an exceptional culture, which was created by the skilful and meticulous Chinese craftsman. There are many unique and rare collections in every dynasty. They are unique bright pearls in our long history.


hmm, i never knew chinese culture was created by craftsmen, and i never new that ANY dynasty ever used the trombone.

stuff like thise make me ashamed to be chinese.


I don't mean to slam you, Shoanator, but after listening to a lot of radio programs from China these past 2 weeks (NPR's Marketplace) I get a feeling that the New China is amoral.  Not immoral, which implies that people do bad things they know are wrong, just that they don't know (or care) what is right.



Well the way I look at is, its a VERY differnet culture to what we now, When I went to China last year, and I was to a restraunt, and I said xie xie to the waiter and she got real happy!

its just the way the Chinese culture is, no need to say thank to someone for doing something they are being payed to do. I have realized that while to some, Chinese (and Asians in general) appear to be amoral and even downright coldblooded at times, Chinese people are very smart, becuase they are very practical.

Like you said Bruce "You bought trombone, I ship trombone. What is problem?". They are a very practical people, it works it works downright as simple as that, which is why China was and is so powerful, simplicity, and organize and (you guessed it) practical system of society and government (except for some nut along the way.
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Firas el Achkar.

The size of a bass trombone has an inverse relationship with the size of the owner's penis.

Say NO to slide tubas!
Trombonedude
« Reply #12 on: Jan 19, 2006, 06:27PM »

Golly, It's just been scammer after scammer on eBay in the past few months! Mad
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KrowleyRock
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 19, 2006, 09:15PM »

and the price isnt that low. sure, the bid price may be cheap, but the shipping cost is 248 euros. that translates to over $300(im not sure of the exact number).
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Bill Stone (phantomish)

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« Reply #14 on: Jan 19, 2006, 09:31PM »

From his discription.  You would get picture of a trombone for your money.  He calls it art, and something to display.  Confusing to me. Confused
Bill
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lou2cv

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« Reply #15 on: Jan 19, 2006, 10:17PM »

Thanks for answers !  ;-)  I had a Stagg bone, but I did not enjoy playing it. So, these chinese trombones....  :cry:

And what about OLDS SUPERSTAR model, built nearly 1978 ?
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choisy
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 20, 2006, 12:09AM »

Honestly, even I am a Chinese in Hong Kong, I don't suggest you to buy any cheap China made Brass Instrument. Only its ooking is Musicial Instrument, play it.....like rubbish !!!
so far Yamaha , Jupiter moved alimit student model to assemble in China. They still stamp it as made in Japan / Taiwan , assemble in China.
This is the true !
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Fuzzy
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« Reply #17 on: Jan 20, 2006, 12:43AM »

I dont care were my Jupiter bass was made, I absoloutely love it! Good!
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Firas el Achkar.

The size of a bass trombone has an inverse relationship with the size of the owner's penis.

Say NO to slide tubas!
BGuttman
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« Reply #18 on: Jan 20, 2006, 08:47AM »

Another "war story" to talk about Mainland Chinese commerce.

I was consulting to a company that made mosquito control devices.  They assembled them in the US, but bought every component from China (except for large plastic molded parts).

We sent drawings with books of specifications to try to make sure there was no possible question about what we were trying to buy.  Things like bent copper tubes, electric motors, stamped pieces of mica, etc.

We'd order advance samples for evaluation, and these came in OK.

The production parts never worked as well as the samples.  And they'd be so late that we had no choice but to make them work, either by force fitting them or modifying them.  

We were making our own valves for the propane using brass tubes, orifices, O-rings (not Chinese), springs, and bobs.  The brass tubes were not "finished" on the inside so that the bob would not move well inside.  Either they didn't understand our finish requirement (specified to ANSI standard) or chose to ignore it because they didn't have equipment to do what we wanted, nobody would call back and say "I don't understand this specification.  What are you asking for?"  They would just do whatever they could and leave it at that.

I really believe that the Chinese took good quality instruments, reverse Engineered them (trademarks, patents, and copyrights mean nothing there), and then built something that looked like what they copied.  No concept about music; "bell is brass, here is brass sheet, make bell, put silver over bell.  What is this "alloy" business, anyway?"  So you can get something that looks like a Shires, but it won't play like a Shires.  Unless you happen to luck on a unit that happened to be made well.  Accidents happen.

Yeah, I'm sour on China.  They work hard, but haven't learned enough about what they make to make 'em good.  Except for Silk and Fireworks.  Those they make good.
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Bruce Guttman
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Section Ldr, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch.
Johnny_verhoeven
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« Reply #19 on: Jan 20, 2006, 10:16AM »

Quote from: "Lebanese Bass Bone"
I dont care were my Jupiter bass was made, I absoloutely love it! Good!


Thats the spirit !

I have 2 chinsese made trombones and they are not the crap every body says they are.
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Johnny Verhoeven

Jupiter Soprano
Stagg Alto
B&H small bore tenor
Maestro medium bore
Yamaha YSL356G
Boosey G-Bass (show piece in the living)
Edwards Bass (BigBand - my main job)
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