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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentMouthpieces(Moderators: BGuttman, Doug Elliott) Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
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wgwbassbone
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« Reply #1660 on: Oct 08, 2017, 01:38PM »

Interesting stuff Zac, the 2G although very close to the 1 1/2G, is a different (and rather special) beast. Many of the players I have, and still admire played that mouthpiece. I tried going back on it this summer, but it still messes with my dental structure. I have had several students who found it to be their mouthpiece.... perhaps it is yours too !!

Chris Stearn
I tried out a Rath 2 a few weeks ago-I sounded like an amateur.
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« Reply #1661 on: Oct 09, 2017, 02:16PM »

I tried out a Rath 2 a few weeks ago-I sounded like an amateur.

I think in fact I could make the 2g size work. Here is a video of me playing Bach sarabande on a MV mouthpiece that was supposed to be a copy of the Bach Mt Vernon mouthpiece GR played. In size its maybe closer to a 2g than a 1 1&2g. Its not good playing but I think it shows the sound. Recorded with an old Zoom Q3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q32s2q2WIUQ

Leif
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Pre59

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« Reply #1662 on: Oct 09, 2017, 02:51PM »

Its not good playing but I think it shows the sound. Recorded with an old Zoom Q3.

Leif

For actual sound you have nothing to worry about IMO. I wish more bass trombonists made this type of vocal tone.

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« Reply #1663 on: Oct 10, 2017, 01:08PM »

For actual sound you have nothing to worry about IMO. I wish more bass trombonists made this type of vocal tone.



I'll get my coat...
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« Reply #1664 on: Oct 10, 2017, 02:06PM »

I'll get my coat...

There are still the players out there..... I've taught a few of them  Evil Evil

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1665 on: Oct 10, 2017, 02:58PM »

There are still the players out there..... I've taught a few of them  Evil Evil

Chris Stearn

Not a criticism of the players themselves, but the sound concept.
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« Reply #1666 on: Oct 10, 2017, 06:10PM »

For actual sound you have nothing to worry about IMO. I wish more bass trombonists made this type of vocal tone.

I think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/  Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s  That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.
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« Reply #1667 on: Oct 11, 2017, 12:28AM »

Thanks for the comments.
A bit over a week on the 2g and things are coming along.
I think it has helped that i've spent a while working at my high register on big pieces like the 60/G&W Nor Easter.
The high range is so much easier.
I practically had a day off playing yesterday so today when I went to buzz the mouthpiece my chops were like 'w t f' and no sound came out for a bit. After some persistence things started to come back.
Buzzing low is certainly difficult at the moment.
I recorded myself playing though and all in all i'm glad I made the change. Gonna stick with it through thick and thin.
Oh yeah and if anyone asks ---- i'm playing a BACH 1G (i'll still be cool then) lol
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« Reply #1668 on: Oct 11, 2017, 12:36AM »

I think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/  Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s  That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

That’s Max Siegel (with a G).  He’s one of the greatest. Be sure to check out his album “Siphonophore,” he’s equally as talented an arranger and composer.
I know Max plays a Curry of sort on his Holton 185 - not sure if it’s a 1.5G, but it’s for sure not a bathtub.
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« Reply #1669 on: Oct 11, 2017, 01:37AM »

Not a criticism of the players themselves, but the sound concept.

Of course. Listen to professional bass trombone players in the UK and you will hear things you like.... orchestras, pits, jazz.... there is a commonality of sound that might be best termed 'classic' bass trombone.
In some ways this has been an unplanned unscripted story.... but I think the truth is that it is because of the massive figure of Bob Hughes providing a sonic glue for several generations of players in the UK.
Bob became a friend when we were both young professionals, starting out on a career. He had a class to his playing and sound, right from the early days that inspired all who heard him. Everybody said 'wow... if I could only sound like Bob'. Through his many recordings, all generations that followed had access to his sound (I know, it's not the same as live) and he has now taught very many players who continue his tradition.
One guy at the heart of British bass trombone playing.

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1670 on: Oct 11, 2017, 03:03AM »

I think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/  Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s  That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

It sounds like you might enjoy a 1970 (very close miked) bass tbn solo by Bill Geldard, "Nelsons Blues" on iTunes.

Bill G was a well established tenor player prior to the bass tbn "boom". I believe he mainly writes for BBB's now.

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« Reply #1671 on: Oct 15, 2017, 01:45AM »

Of course. Listen to professional bass trombone players in the UK and you will hear things you like.... orchestras, pits, jazz.... there is a commonality of sound that might be best termed 'classic' bass trombone.
In some ways this has been an unplanned unscripted story.... but I think the truth is that it is because of the massive figure of Bob Hughes providing a sonic glue for several generations of players in the UK.
Bob became a friend when we were both young professionals, starting out on a career. He had a class to his playing and sound, right from the early days that inspired all who heard him. Everybody said 'wow... if I could only sound like Bob'. Through his many recordings, all generations that followed had access to his sound (I know, it's not the same as live) and he has now taught very many players who continue his tradition.
One guy at the heart of British bass trombone playing.

Chris Stearn

And before him, Ray Premru.
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« Reply #1672 on: Oct 15, 2017, 06:23AM »

I think they are out there. At the last ATW, in between lethal doses of testosterone-ized bass bones from university tbone choirs, I was kind of stunned by the not just vocal, but conversational style of Max Siebel with WeatherVest. http://weathervest.com/  Really refreshing to see someone who doesn't approach the bass bone as a war hammer. As a bass bone doubler/learner, this guy turned a light on for me. If I can learn to control the sound like that, I'll feel like I've achieved something. Anyone who can make a trombone sound like it fits melodically with a couple of saxophones is brilliant in my book. I mean he wasn't just blasting out whole note pedal fundamentals, he was playing with all the subtlety of a melodic instrument. I'd like to hear Michael Davis https://youtu.be/Vr2Pgudluv8 do an interview with him to hear what he has to say about his approach. Listen to a couple of the tunes on that Weather Vest link. Live it was even better. Check out what they did at ATW https://youtu.be/BdWamsaFPT4?t=6h34m1s  That's at about 6:34 if the link doesn't put you there.

Max Seigel is a friend and a unique, beautiful musician and bass trombone player. I've tried to ask him how he plays that way, and he won't say much about it. Someday...

That Holton he has is a very special, extremely responsive instrument (maybe because he's taught it to play that way), and he plays a Curry 1D, which is sort of a smallish 1 size at the rim with a modest cup. Not a bathtub, but nowhere close to a 1-1/2G.
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« Reply #1673 on: Oct 15, 2017, 06:44AM »

Max Seigel is a friend and a unique, beautiful musician and bass trombone player. I've tried to ask him how he plays that way, and he won't say much about it. Someday...

That Holton he has is a very special, extremely responsive instrument (maybe because he's taught it to play that way), and he plays a Curry 1D, which is sort of a smallish 1 size at the rim with a modest cup. Not a bathtub, but nowhere close to a 1-1/2G.

Hard for me to believe that I actually sold that 185 to Max many moons ago. What a fine player and a great guy!
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« Reply #1674 on: Oct 20, 2017, 01:52PM »

Hard for me to believe that I actually sold that 185 to Max many moons ago. What a fine player and a great guy!

Lucky he doesn't play a boutique horn.... he would wipe us all out  Evil Evil Evil Evil

Or a 1 1/2G Bach  Evil Evil Evil Evil

Close call...
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« Reply #1675 on: Oct 21, 2017, 07:06PM »

That’s Max Siegel (with a G).  He’s one of the greatest. Be sure to check out his album “Siphonophore,” he’s equally as talented an arranger and composer.
I know Max plays a Curry of sort on his Holton 185 - not sure if it’s a 1.5G, but it’s for sure not a bathtub.

Yeah, sorry for misspelling his name. The horn had that Holton vibe and it was definitely a plugin valve. Thx for the lead on other stuff hes done.
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« Reply #1676 on: Dec 08, 2017, 07:00AM »

I now have a kind of "luksus" problem. I have two Mt Vernons 1 1/2g. Both very nice and I have not found out which of them to use. One is silver and one have a gold rim and cup. I also have one regular Bach 1 1/2g and one Artisan 1 1/2g. The Mt Vernons are much better in sound, more depth and more "creamy" if you understand. There is no doubt the Vernons are better quality. The rim on the regular doesn't feel good, the rim on the Artisan feels a little thin but still quite ok. The rim on the two Mt Vernons are more comfortable and I think they are more flat. The difference between the two Mt Vernons are that the silver one is a hair bigger on the mouth. But its maybe more about how the rim countur is. Still I cant see any difference. Sound is about the same, excelent.

Well, anyway, its a "luksus" problem, but as you all know I have sometimes problems with choices so I have been playing both Mt Vernons for some time, but mostly the gold rim because the gold feels nice on the mouth. Sound is still nearly same on both but the gold one seems to be a hair more secure. The silver might have a little more punch in the beginning/attacks of notes. Choices...never easy for me.

Leif
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« Reply #1677 on: Dec 08, 2017, 07:21AM »

Seems clear to me that you should part with one of them.  I'll trade ya something!   Evil
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« Reply #1678 on: Dec 08, 2017, 11:39AM »

I now have a kind of "luksus" problem. I have two Mt Vernons 1 1/2g. Both very nice and I have not found out which of them to use. One is silver and one have a gold rim and cup. I also have one regular Bach 1 1/2g and one Artisan 1 1/2g. The Mt Vernons are much better in sound, more depth and more "creamy" if you understand. There is no doubt the Vernons are better quality. The rim on the regular doesn't feel good, the rim on the Artisan feels a little thin but still quite ok. The rim on the two Mt Vernons are more comfortable and I think they are more flat. The difference between the two Mt Vernons are that the silver one is a hair bigger on the mouth. But its maybe more about how the rim countur is. Still I cant see any difference. Sound is about the same, excelent.

Well, anyway, its a "luksus" problem, but as you all know I have sometimes problems with choices so I have been playing both Mt Vernons for some time, but mostly the gold rim because the gold feels nice on the mouth. Sound is still nearly same on both but the gold one seems to be a hair more secure. The silver might have a little more punch in the beginning/attacks of notes. Choices...never easy for me.

Leif


Hei Leif! Åssen gåre? :-)

I personally have a problem with gold plate rim, as They tends to be too slippery.. You tend to "slide" away (Pardon the pun) from the "sweet spot" and needs to press the piece harder on the mouth.. I usually keeps  my mouthpiece in my pocket together with my carkeys.. Problem Solved  :). Besides I play on a Rath B2W with an extremly wide rim contour. Works really Great BTW!  Good!

Trond
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« Reply #1679 on: Dec 18, 2017, 08:14AM »

I haven't read this whole 84 page post so excuse me if I am repeating what someone might have already mentioned. Is it absurd to have a Large Bass Trombone setup and also a smaller setup? Tenor Trombonist do it who both play Jazz and Classical . What I have used in the past to play 2nd( Bass Trombone) Trombone in a Pit Orchestra , 3rd Trombone in a Concert Band , 2 Trombones in a  Small Big Band is way different from what I choose to use Playing 5th Trb in a Big Band ,, Or playing the Tuba Parts In a Brass Quintet, Orchestral Bass Trombone or Covering "Tower Of Power" Bari parts in a Rock Band.I enjoy playing many styles of Music and I find the One Mouthpiece One Horn method does not meet my needs for all styles that I play. I choose My Equipment( mouthpiece and horn) for the type of music I will be playing . I have and use a 1 1/2G Megatone and a Greg Black 0G and others. I also play Tenor Trb,Lead Trombone, Jazz Trombone , Classical Tenor, Contrabass  Trb and a 5/4 BBbb and a smaller 4/4 Bbb Tuba. Whatever Works ... Too Each Their Own. I kinda wish the "One Size Fits All " concept worked for me. It would be  less expensive.
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