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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentMouthpieces(Moderators: BGuttman, Doug Elliott) Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
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JohnL
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« Reply #1560 on: Oct 05, 2016, 03:38PM »

Oh okay.  I guess I did somewhat understood.  I thought it was about the modern Bach 1.5G.  Thanks for the clarification.  And I'll keep a look out for one! (MV)
Even if you can't find a Mt. Vernon 1.5G, I think there's still a lesson here regarding "medium-sized" bass trombone mouthpieces in general.
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« Reply #1561 on: Jan 07, 2017, 09:02AM »

Well, an old friend who I had not seen in many years, came to pick up a trombone I am selling the other day. He played it a bit and had some comments about the low register. I blew it as we talked it through. He commented that it sounded very different when I played it.. and looked at my mouthpiece. He is playing a fine modern mouthpiece, slightly bigger than a 1 1/2G.... he gave up on the 1 1/2 years ago. I said he could try the MV, but it was not for sale and he might regret it.
He casually put it to his face.... I could hear it... he could feel it... and I could see that he didn't expect it to be anything like it was.
I did warn him.... it my well be one more player searching the ads.
A strange kind of magic.

Chris Stearn.
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Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
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« Reply #1562 on: Jan 07, 2017, 09:14AM »

The poor old Bach 1 1/2G...... it gets a hard time these days.
Ed Kleinhammer can't see a use for it in the modern orchestra...
We call it a starter mouthpiece... a stepping stone to the serious stuff.
I've trumpeted the value of the improved Rath 1 1/2W and how we sorted the low register problems and funny rim that caused constant complaints (which we did)...
Well, the last couple of days, I've been thinking about all this....
Thinking a lot.
I took a few days out to see an old friend who is getting back into trombone after a long layoff from the profession. He wanted to settle on the right mouthpiece before really getting his head down and working...
so we took a couple of days, about forty mouthpieces, dozens of good recordings and a few bottles of wine, so that we were really sure that we had it right.
We played, we listened to old and new trombone recordings, we played some more, we drank, we played, I remodelled a rim, then another, then another, we played some more.
Then he gave me a present......
The finest Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G that I have EVER come across !!
I had the Mt. Vernon 1 1/2G that I had turned into the prototype Rath 1 1/2W with me..... no comparison.
This new Mt Vernon is rich, creamy, refined, vibrant, singing, focussed......
and just as odd on the rim, and hard down low, and unforgiving as any Bach.......but when you work at it... it rewards you SO MUCH.
My Rath works better. Period. BUT ,the Bach is seductive beyond belief.
The sound I just love.... it's George Roberts, it's Tony Studd, it's not what you hear today.
Listening to lots of recent playing (non orchestral) the bass trombone has changed in sound.... almost everywhere.
SO..... perhaps I have been wrong....
perhaps all the kids should buy buckets that blow easy....
instant low register.... of sorts
They should fight for a sound on them for about twenty years....
Then they should try to buy a Mt. Vernon 1 1/2G, and try to play it if they do find one.
Not many will put up with all the problems....
But the few that do will be rewarded.....
It's not a starter mouthpiece...
It's a finisher mouthpiece.
Against my better judgement, I might just blow this quirky, stuffy, thing of beauty for a few weeks.....
I can always go back to the easy route....
but this is so interesting..... yes interesting.
Ask yourself when you play...is this the most interesting sound I've ever made ? It's a shame if it's not.

Chris Stearn.

Maybe I missed, but I don't see anything in the original post about playing a true bass trombone. I've started using a Bach 1.5G with my Conn 88H. It seems reasonable.

In my opinion, a Conn 88H is quite a flexible horn. It can be matched with an appropriate mpc and used as a tenor, or with a larger mpc as a tenor-bass and with a still larger mpc as a bass in a pinch. Perhaps other similarly-sized horns also work that way.

But this thread isn't about a Conn 88H. It's about the 1.5G. Since I have equipment to play anything I want from high tenor to low tenor, it seemed reasonable to pop a 1.5G into my 88H and try getting used to playing bass, possibly as a work-up to buying a true bass trombone, if I feel encouraged along the way. Does this baby-steps approach with a 1.5G seem viable?

...Geezer
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BGuttman
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« Reply #1563 on: Jan 07, 2017, 09:21AM »

Sure.  You aren't going to audition for the Pittsburgh Symphony 3rd trombone chair on the 88H with a 1 1/2 G, so if it works it's good.

I use a Wick 4BL on my King 7B when I need to cover tenor parts at times.

You may never need a "real" bass trombone for the type of playing you do, so the 88H with a big mouthpiece may be fine.

Back in the "Bad Old Days" a bass trombone was the size of an 88H.  Of course most tenor players then were playing things that were the size of a Conn 4H or so.
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« Reply #1564 on: Jan 07, 2017, 09:31AM »

Sure.  You aren't going to audition for the Pittsburgh Symphony 3rd trombone chair on the 88H with a 1 1/2 G, so if it works it's good.

I use a Wick 4BL on my King 7B when I need to cover tenor parts at times.

You may never need a "real" bass trombone for the type of playing you do, so the 88H with a big mouthpiece may be fine.

Back in the "Bad Old Days" a bass trombone was the size of an 88H.  Of course most tenor players then were playing things that were the size of a Conn 4H or so.

Thanks for the affirmation, Bruce. That's how I see it as well. A lower-pitched horn might just be my "safety-net" for continued playing as a very elderly man - some day. So why not test the waters while I'm able.

I started this hobby WAY to late in my life to set the world on fire. But if I have a chance to set my little teeny-tiny corner of the universe aglow, I'll be happy.

As long as my embouchure can handle "doubling" with impunity, it should be okay. As little as three months ago it was out of the question. Feeling up to it lately...

...Geezer
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« Reply #1565 on: Jan 07, 2017, 01:29PM »

Well, an old friend who I had not seen in many years, came to pick up a trombone I am selling the other day. He played it a bit and had some comments about the low register. I blew it as we talked it through. He commented that it sounded very different when I played it.. and looked at my mouthpiece. He is playing a fine modern mouthpiece, slightly bigger than a 1 1/2G.... he gave up on the 1 1/2 years ago. I said he could try the MV, but it was not for sale and he might regret it.
He casually put it to his face.... I could hear it... he could feel it... and I could see that he didn't expect it to be anything like it was.
I did warn him.... it my well be one more player searching the ads.
A strange kind of magic.

Chris Stearn.

Yes, I think most people would be surprised if they had the opportunity to try one. But I see on ebay that they are seldom up for sale. People keep them close.

Leif
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« Reply #1566 on: Jan 07, 2017, 02:40PM »

Yes, I think most people would be surprised if they had the opportunity to try one. But I see on ebay that they are seldom up for sale. People keep them close.

Leif
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« Reply #1567 on: Jan 20, 2017, 02:32PM »

Thanks Chris! This place would not be the same with out you. There is lot of wisdom in your posts around every aspects of the trombone. It really is! It has helped me a lot.

There is a tread right now about another new mouthpiece, the artisan. Strange enough its from Bach. We have not seen many reviews about it? Is it a desperate kick from a dying horse? I understand the bach company has seen better days.

Anyway I don't think there ever will be a new Mt Vernon. I believe the computer and digitalised world never can replace the art of hand made art. Which the Mt Vernon is....


Leif
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« Reply #1568 on: Feb 01, 2017, 03:21AM »

Having picked up my Holton TR181 again after a few years of virtually no playing and practice I found I was really struggling to get any quality in the lower register using the JK 2AL  that had been my mouthpiece of choice these last 20 years.
As a quick fix I was thinking about picking up a much bigger mouthpiece, did a quick search for other's experience, stumbled onto this thread and thought "Well, it's worth a try."
Instead of buying a bucket I picked up an almost new Bach 1 1/2G for 20, and much to my delight found it pretty well matched my 2AL for tone quality in the upper register and suddenly I had back the clarity I couldn't find when using both valves and on pedal notes.
Now for lots of practice to try and recover the rest of my pedal range.

When I have more time free I will read the 70ish pages I haven't got through yet, as this has proved an interesting and enlightening conversation  Good!

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« Reply #1569 on: Feb 02, 2017, 07:00PM »

Splendour, enjoy the 1 1/2g  Hi

The new bach 1 1/2g got a lot of pepper her in lot of treads. Its nearly like its a looser.

There I disagree with all, even Chris. The modern Bach is still the nearest you can get to any Mt Vernon. They are all different, even the new, but in sound....only Bach mouthpieces are close to the Mt Vernon sound.
Leif

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« Reply #1570 on: Feb 10, 2017, 07:57AM »

I feel a little ashamed here since I posted so much and lot if it is a little bit.... Yeah, RIGHT. :/ you know the feeling...

I tried to make a poll here today but the forum seem to not have this option?

So I just make the questions manually.

1. How many of you play the 1 1/2g today?
2. What brand do you play, Schilke, Denis Wick, Doug Elliott, Greg Black, Hammond....?
3. How many tried it but had to leave it?
4. How many of you think the 1 1/2g have a future or might not have it?

Ok this will not be a real poll but it might give a little insight what people do and think today.

Thanks for answers dear bass players!

Leif
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« Reply #1571 on: Feb 10, 2017, 08:08AM »

Leif,

Wouldn't be best to post a poll?
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« Reply #1572 on: Feb 10, 2017, 08:12AM »

People should state where they live... I think you will find few 1 1/2 players in the US but still many in the UK and Europe.
Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1573 on: Feb 10, 2017, 08:23AM »

People should state where they live... I think you will find few 1 1/2 players in the US but still many in the UK and Europe.
Chris Stearn

A "big is beautiful" thing?
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« Reply #1574 on: Feb 10, 2017, 08:25AM »

I'm just a doubler/dabbler on bass but I play a VB 1 1/2g, as well as a Doug Elliot approximation, and I enjoy the Ferguson V. I have a 1 1/4g, but don't like the direction it pushes my tenor chops.
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« Reply #1575 on: Feb 23, 2017, 07:21AM »

I got hold of a Bach Artisan 1 1/2G yesterday. In many ways it is a very good mouthpiece... sound and blow are excellent... my section mates were split between the Artisan and the MV. but testing ended because the rim is simply dreadful !!!! Sharp inner rim, high point very much toward the inner and outer rim drops away rapidly. What were they thinking ?Nothing like any NY rims I have seen.

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1576 on: Feb 23, 2017, 08:38AM »

I have a mouthpiece stamped "Holton 181" that is rather like that. In the same size, good sound, and the sharp rim makes pointy articulations easy. But it also is too uncomfortable to play.
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« Reply #1577 on: Feb 23, 2017, 09:32AM »

I have a mouthpiece stamped "Holton 181" that is rather like that. In the same size, good sound, and the sharp rim makes pointy articulations easy. But it also is too uncomfortable to play.
I had one of those mouthpieces. Nice piece but that cookie cutter rim is ridiculous!
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« Reply #1578 on: Feb 23, 2017, 03:45PM »

I got hold of a Bach Artisan 1 1/2G yesterday. In many ways it is a very good mouthpiece... sound and blow are excellent... my section mates were split between the Artisan and the MV. but testing ended because the rim is simply dreadful !!!! Sharp inner rim, high point very much toward the inner and outer rim drops away rapidly. What were they thinking ?Nothing like any NY rims I have seen.

Chris Stearn
I tried that same mp. Same results.
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« Reply #1579 on: Feb 23, 2017, 04:09PM »

I have a Holton 1 1/2G that resembles the old Conn mouthpieces in shape.  I quite like it!
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