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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentMouthpieces(Moderators: BGuttman, Doug Elliott) Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
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tbarh
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« Reply #1640 on: May 27, 2017, 04:17AM »

Great post, Bob ! ...Keep it coming !  Good! Good!
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« Reply #1641 on: May 27, 2017, 10:10AM »

Very good post Bob. You are so right. Of course, when I first heard a George Roberts recording tone was only a part of what shocked me... His great time and phrasing were a revelation.... but we must always base our tonal judgement on live sounds.
Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1642 on: Aug 09, 2017, 02:06PM »

but we must always base our tonal judgement on live sounds.

I desperately try to hear bass trombonists live when I can - but that is so few and far between where I am - out local symphony rarely has a full trombone compliment.  I found a guy that lives locally who is a top notch bass trombonist - I'm trying to get some lessons with him with 95% of the reason being that I just want to hear him up close.

I wish it weren't so hard.
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« Reply #1643 on: Aug 09, 2017, 02:29PM »

I desperately try to hear bass trombonists live when I can - but that is so few and far between where I am - out local symphony rarely has a full trombone compliment.  I found a guy that lives locally who is a top notch bass trombonist - I'm trying to get some lessons with him with 95% of the reason being that I just want to hear him up close.

I wish it weren't so hard.

You live in a beautiful part of the world... You can't have everything. Gabe is not so far away and makes a great sound. I will be in MA over Christmas... if you want to travel we could play some duets... beer keeps me happy.

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1644 on: Aug 09, 2017, 02:41PM »

You live in a beautiful part of the world... You can't have everything. Gabe is not so far away and makes a great sound. I will be in MA over Christmas... if you want to travel we could play some duets... beer keeps me happy.

Chris Stearn

I wouldn't miss that opportunity! I'll get in touch with you as December nears.

I do try to travel to Boston when I can.  I'm actually moving about an hour closer at the end of the month so it's only about 2hrs away.
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« Reply #1645 on: Aug 09, 2017, 02:52PM »

You live in a beautiful part of the world... You can't have everything. Gabe is not so far away and makes a great sound. I will be in MA over Christmas... if you want to travel we could play some duets... beer keeps me happy.

Chris Stearn

Thank you Chris!

Yes, there are a lot of great trombone players in New England. I feel very lucky to be part of the community.
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« Reply #1646 on: Aug 14, 2017, 08:06AM »

I finally got my hands on a vintage-ish Yamaha 322 from the mid-90s. These horns have a great sound that is so easy to produce - it is likely a .547 with a beautiful bass register.

I will only use a 1-1/2G in it. My best one is a Kelly made of Lexan, but my Holton 1-1/2G is quite nice too.

My Bach 1-1/2G is an anti-MV. It is awful, and I wouldn't want to burden another person with it by selling it.

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« Reply #1647 on: Aug 14, 2017, 11:16AM »

I did some blind tests with my wife listening and hands down she preferred my Greg Black 1-1/2G over anything else I have of all different sizes; and I have a decent collection.

There is just something about that size, especially with the rather custom Shires setup I have.

Can't wait to try out my Mr. Bass Trombone Reeves/BrassArk mouthpiece that's coming today.  I used to have one and if I remember right, it is a real contender.
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« Reply #1648 on: Sep 15, 2017, 02:24PM »

Guess what guys.....today I got hands on a pretty Mt Vernon 1.5g. It was pure luck. A friend of mine that play trumpet posted some picture on facebook with a collection of bass trombone mouthpieces he got from a retired bass trombone player. I didn't look so much at it but suddenly I saw there was a Bach mouthpiece. Had a closer look and YES! To my big surprise it was an Mt Vernon!!!! Well, rest is history, I got it today for a rather cheap price. But not super cheap, my friend knew what it was worth, they are popular among trumpet players also.

Anyway, dont have much chance to try it tonight. I'm sitting in a hotel room and have to play a concert tomorrow. Tried it 5 minutes before a rehearsel tonight. A little different from the one I already have. In fact deeper and a little more V shaped. A little different on the lips. Didn't dear to use it in the ensemble because its a rather important concert tomorrow. Will try it more after the concert.

Look how nice it looks!!  LUCKY LUCKY like some other in the forum always write Good! Good! Good!


 
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnFhNyFesmcYhLhsi1ft7qsK0xX2kw

Leif
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« Reply #1649 on: Sep 16, 2017, 10:56PM »

Guess what guys.....today I got hands on a pretty Mt Vernon 1.5g. It was pure luck. A friend of mine that play trumpet posted some picture on facebook with a collection of bass trombone mouthpieces he got from a retired bass trombone player. I didn't look so much at it but suddenly I saw there was a Bach mouthpiece. Had a closer look and YES! To my big surprise it was an Mt Vernon!!!! Well, rest is history, I got it today for a rather cheap price. But not super cheap, my friend knew what it was worth, they are popular among trumpet players also.

Anyway, dont have much chance to try it tonight. I'm sitting in a hotel room and have to play a concert tomorrow. Tried it 5 minutes before a rehearsel tonight. A little different from the one I already have. In fact deeper and a little more V shaped. A little different on the lips. Didn't dear to use it in the ensemble because its a rather important concert tomorrow. Will try it more after the concert.

Look how nice it looks!!  LUCKY LUCKY like some other in the forum always write Good! Good! Good!


 
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnFhNyFesmcYhLhsi1ft7qsK0xX2kw

Leif


Well done !!!  Every one is a little different... all good, but different. Over the summer I messed around with a MV 2G and my oldest MV 1 1/2G but the one I picked up in summer of 2016 is still the winner.... it just fits my face. No idea what the magic is but it is real enough. I have MV's for my small tenor, bass and tuba.... I suppose a symphony tenor piece and a contra piece would be nice, but that would be greedy  Evil Evil

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1650 on: Oct 02, 2017, 05:53AM »

I just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday).  So far so good.   Good!
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« Reply #1651 on: Oct 02, 2017, 06:05AM »

I just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday).  So far so good.   Good!

 :) :) :)

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #1652 on: Oct 02, 2017, 08:01AM »

I just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday).  So far so good.   Good!

If I had checked TTF when I normally do after rehearsals, I'm pretty sure that would have been mine.  :(
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« Reply #1653 on: Oct 02, 2017, 10:30AM »

If I had checked TTF when I normally do after rehearsals, I'm pretty sure that would have been mine.  :(

Shop early.  Shop often.

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« Reply #1654 on: Oct 02, 2017, 10:39AM »

I just picked up a MV 1.5g (arrived yesterday).  So far so good.   Good!

SO YOU bought it.  >:( :)
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« Reply #1655 on: Oct 07, 2017, 10:14PM »

I love this thread. I've spent the last week scanning through the entire thing.
I am a bass trombonist that, like many has moved around so many different mouthpieces since I started playing.
I've freelanced on bigger pieces mainly over the last 3 years. My go-to mouth piece was the Schilke 60
and before that I was using G&W Bob Sanders (very similar to 60) and more recently the G&W Nor Easter.
I had played on the 60 exclusively for the last year and a half. At Uni I spent most of my time on 59
sized pieces and the Laskey 85MD towards the end.

I am currently working towards some orchestral auditions and with lots of free time on my hands decided to try
some different pieces. I felt that my playing was reasonable on the 60, but incredibly taxing for loud upper register
playing. I also didn't like the articulation I was getting on the 60 - never clean enough.
The most obvious problem I had with it was the tendency for it go flat in the harmonics above top of the stave Bb. I know
I had been making micro adjustments because of this for years.

I've felt that ever since I was at uni, there was a kind of 'passive bullying' going on from professionals and
semi professional students to always push big gear. I had a few teachers that would encourage for me to play on the
biggest mouthpiece and to not bother with anything like the 1.5g size. I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low. I feel like this is some of the worst advice
i'd received - and it came from a highly respected professional who held a principal chair.

There were some colleagues of mine however who had heard me play on smaller gear. Tenor trombone friends who had heard me
play on a 1.5g and schilke 59 (coming from something bigger than that) and remarked how much better I sounded on the smaller stuff.
I wish I could go back, take their advice and never stray.

So anyway, as I was saying with my abundance of free time I pulled out my draw full of mouthpieces. I set up my Zoom H6 microphone and played to
it over a couple of days and listened and compared. I then went into another room in the house which I have acoustically treated and played some
more. I was really surprised at what I heard. The most interesting and desirable sounding playing came from the most uncomfortable piece that I
had. A DAMN BACH 2G!

The first time I played on it, I actually said whilst recording 'oh my god I can't play that f****n thing' - I then listened back and the sound had
much more character, interest and core to it than anything else I tried (about 10 mouthpieces)

Now it has a few problems. It plays relatively sharp. On my Shires I have to pull the tuning slide a fair way out to get a Bb @ 441 and it tends to want to
sit on the high side. I'm guessing that's also partially me getting used to the thing (I am cold turkey from 1.5 years on a Schilke 60)
The other problem is the trigger register and below. From about trigger D and below the 2g is hard work and can sound a bit gnarly.
I don't mind that though. I'm happy to do the work because that mid and lower mid register just sounds so good to me.
High range better but a bit weird, I have a few extra notes on top but it's going to take a bit to get used to.

(I remember reading this thread YEARS ago so that is what prompted me to come and read it again)
Thank you Chris and many others for all your contributions.

Anyway long post I know but watch this space. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk playing on the small piece but I really believe it will be worth it in the
long run.

Cheers,

Zak
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« Reply #1656 on: Oct 07, 2017, 10:25PM »

I love this thread. I've spent the last week scanning through the entire thing.
I am a bass trombonist that, like many has moved around so many different mouthpieces since I started playing.
I've freelanced on bigger pieces mainly over the last 3 years. My go-to mouth piece was the Schilke 60
and before that I was using G&W Bob Sanders (very similar to 60) and more recently the G&W Nor Easter.
I had played on the 60 exclusively for the last year and a half. At Uni I spent most of my time on 59
sized pieces and the Laskey 85MD towards the end.

I am currently working towards some orchestral auditions and with lots of free time on my hands decided to try
some different pieces. I felt that my playing was reasonable on the 60, but incredibly taxing for loud upper register
playing. I also didn't like the articulation I was getting on the 60 - never clean enough.
The most obvious problem I had with it was the tendency for it go flat in the harmonics above top of the stave Bb. I know
I had been making micro adjustments because of this for years.

I've felt that ever since I was at uni, there was a kind of 'passive bullying' going on from professionals and
semi professional students to always push big gear. I had a few teachers that would encourage for me to play on the
biggest mouthpiece and to not bother with anything like the 1.5g size. I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low. I feel like this is some of the worst advice
i'd received - and it came from a highly respected professional who held a principal chair.

There were some colleagues of mine however who had heard me play on smaller gear. Tenor trombone friends who had heard me
play on a 1.5g and schilke 59 (coming from something bigger than that) and remarked how much better I sounded on the smaller stuff.
I wish I could go back, take their advice and never stray.

So anyway, as I was saying with my abundance of free time I pulled out my draw full of mouthpieces. I set up my Zoom H6 microphone and played to
it over a couple of days and listened and compared. I then went into another room in the house which I have acoustically treated and played some
more. I was really surprised at what I heard. The most interesting and desirable sounding playing came from the most uncomfortable piece that I
had. A DAMN BACH 2G!

The first time I played on it, I actually said whilst recording 'oh my god I can't play that f****n thing' - I then listened back and the sound had
much more character, interest and core to it than anything else I tried (about 10 mouthpieces)

Now it has a few problems. It plays relatively sharp. On my Shires I have to pull the tuning slide a fair way out to get a Bb @ 441 and it tends to want to
sit on the high side. I'm guessing that's also partially me getting used to the thing (I am cold turkey from 1.5 years on a Schilke 60)
The other problem is the trigger register and below. From about trigger D and below the 2g is hard work and can sound a bit gnarly.
I don't mind that though. I'm happy to do the work because that mid and lower mid register just sounds so good to me.
High range better but a bit weird, I have a few extra notes on top but it's going to take a bit to get used to.

(I remember reading this thread YEARS ago so that is what prompted me to come and read it again)
Thank you Chris and many others for all your contributions.

Anyway long post I know but watch this space. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk playing on the small piece but I really believe it will be worth it in the
long run.

Cheers,

Zak














Your profile says you studied in Melbourne? You don't have to of course, but could you pm me which teacher (s) pushed you into bigger gear? My experience studying on Melbourne was the exact opposite, and I think I studied with most of the orchestral players around town at some point or another.....
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« Reply #1657 on: Oct 08, 2017, 02:43AM »

Quote
I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low.


Well, some teachers......

Is it not one of the strange ideas that some bass trombone players have today? There is contrabass trombones around.
The most beautiful sound of the bass trombone is including at least a high C isnīt it? GR played a nice high D i remember it well.

That said I have heard beautiful playing on much bigger sizes then what I play, but a lot of woofy sound also.
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« Reply #1658 on: Oct 08, 2017, 09:03AM »

I love this thread. I've spent the last week scanning through the entire thing.
I am a bass trombonist that, like many has moved around so many different mouthpieces since I started playing.
I've freelanced on bigger pieces mainly over the last 3 years. My go-to mouth piece was the Schilke 60
and before that I was using G&W Bob Sanders (very similar to 60) and more recently the G&W Nor Easter.
I had played on the 60 exclusively for the last year and a half. At Uni I spent most of my time on 59
sized pieces and the Laskey 85MD towards the end.

I am currently working towards some orchestral auditions and with lots of free time on my hands decided to try
some different pieces. I felt that my playing was reasonable on the 60, but incredibly taxing for loud upper register
playing. I also didn't like the articulation I was getting on the 60 - never clean enough.
The most obvious problem I had with it was the tendency for it go flat in the harmonics above top of the stave Bb. I know
I had been making micro adjustments because of this for years.

I've felt that ever since I was at uni, there was a kind of 'passive bullying' going on from professionals and
semi professional students to always push big gear. I had a few teachers that would encourage for me to play on the
biggest mouthpiece and to not bother with anything like the 1.5g size. I had one teacher who told me to not bother with
playing anything above an F above the stave and just focus on playing low. I feel like this is some of the worst advice
i'd received - and it came from a highly respected professional who held a principal chair.

There were some colleagues of mine however who had heard me play on smaller gear. Tenor trombone friends who had heard me
play on a 1.5g and schilke 59 (coming from something bigger than that) and remarked how much better I sounded on the smaller stuff.
I wish I could go back, take their advice and never stray.

So anyway, as I was saying with my abundance of free time I pulled out my draw full of mouthpieces. I set up my Zoom H6 microphone and played to
it over a couple of days and listened and compared. I then went into another room in the house which I have acoustically treated and played some
more. I was really surprised at what I heard. The most interesting and desirable sounding playing came from the most uncomfortable piece that I
had. A DAMN BACH 2G!

The first time I played on it, I actually said whilst recording 'oh my god I can't play that f****n thing' - I then listened back and the sound had
much more character, interest and core to it than anything else I tried (about 10 mouthpieces)

Now it has a few problems. It plays relatively sharp. On my Shires I have to pull the tuning slide a fair way out to get a Bb @ 441 and it tends to want to
sit on the high side. I'm guessing that's also partially me getting used to the thing (I am cold turkey from 1.5 years on a Schilke 60)
The other problem is the trigger register and below. From about trigger D and below the 2g is hard work and can sound a bit gnarly.
I don't mind that though. I'm happy to do the work because that mid and lower mid register just sounds so good to me.
High range better but a bit weird, I have a few extra notes on top but it's going to take a bit to get used to.

(I remember reading this thread YEARS ago so that is what prompted me to come and read it again)
Thank you Chris and many others for all your contributions.

Anyway long post I know but watch this space. I feel like I'm taking a bit of a risk playing on the small piece but I really believe it will be worth it in the
long run.

Cheers,

Zak


Hey Zak,
Very enjoyable post from you. 10 years ago I was in a similar position as you. I had played a 60 size mouthpiece for many years and decided to move to a 1 and 1/2G. I bought a 1970s era piece and went to work. I also experienced some of the same issues you are-lower range not speaking properly, especially the pedal register. Maybe because I was stubborn, who knows, it took me about 6 months to comfortably play in all registers with the 1 and 1/2G. Ultimately I found a couple of nice MV pieces that I use full time on several different instruments. it's not for everyone as many have pointed out here on The Forum but if you're committed to it you'll make it work. Good Luck!
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« Reply #1659 on: Oct 08, 2017, 11:27AM »

Interesting stuff Zac, the 2G although very close to the 1 1/2G, is a different (and rather special) beast. Many of the players I have, and still admire played that mouthpiece. I tried going back on it this summer, but it still messes with my dental structure. I have had several students who found it to be their mouthpiece.... perhaps it is yours too !!

Chris Stearn
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Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
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