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Author Topic: John Cage.... Genius?  (Read 7476 times)
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slideride
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« Reply #20 on: Apr 12, 2006, 02:38PM »

1st, in regard to the one that said "the piece is not about silence, nor does it have it"... that would be why i put silence with quotation marks around it.

i am well aware that pure silence most likely does not exist....

and when i say silence i mean "tiny white noises, meant or accidental".

also, in regard to the initial rebutter... uh... i did not say that there was no BEAUTIFUL music after this piece... i wish you would not make up your own pretext... i just said that once you make "tiny white noises, meant or accidental" music... you have, PERHAPS, the most recent innovation.

i won't hold my breath for one as groundbreaking as this one.

justin
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TrombonePro

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« Reply #21 on: Apr 12, 2006, 03:17PM »

I prefer tonality myself, but he was definetely innovative.
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« Reply #22 on: Apr 13, 2006, 12:03PM »

Quote from: "slideride"

when you make "silence" music, you have reached the last innovation... the rest of the music has been done many many times before by countless numbers of composers and performers... you know this as well as i do... reduce, re-use, recycle... the name of the game is theft, brother.


Nope, I guarantee you it won't be the last innovation.

How about a piece that involves various scents being pumped into the auditorium as the music goes?

Maybe special seats for the audience to sit in that vibrate and move in time with the music?

What about training birds to chirp in time for a piece?

See, the above ideas might be bad, but they are definitely innovations.
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« Reply #23 on: Apr 13, 2006, 06:30PM »

how about that if you play a gig at a restaurant and smell food cooking while you are playing?

how about Messiaen orchestrating birdsongs?

how about any darn amusement 3D film ride at any amusement park?

old hat, i'm afraid.

justin
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Frank B
« Reply #24 on: Apr 13, 2006, 07:09PM »

Quote from: "slideride"
old hat, i'm afraid.

justin

In that sense, so are ambient sounds. They've been around since long before our styles of music have been. Even been a part of it. How about you just listen to music- any music- they're there.

Bringing them out is just like taking a clarinet out from the orchestra and giving it a solo. Nothing special really.

 :-P
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« Reply #25 on: Apr 15, 2006, 12:46AM »

really, nothing is completely new, ever.

It's all been done before, somewhere, to some extent, by something.

When ive said that before, people say things to me like:

What about the invention of the plane?
Ever seen a bird before?

There is nothing that has not been done before, somewhere, by something.

If there is, we will never know about it, because seeing as ntohing ike it has ever happened before, we will not think of it.
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« Reply #26 on: Apr 15, 2006, 07:19AM »

I can't answer the question

John Cage.... Genius?

because I've never heard any of his musical compositions.

However, IMHO....

Anyone who believes that 4.33 minutes of silence = a musical composition = completely gullible.

*John Cage laughs all the way to the bank*
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« Reply #27 on: Apr 15, 2006, 07:32AM »

If you keep saying that, I'm going to start taking it personally.

Anybody who can't realize 4'33"=music=completely unimaginative and musically naive.

Nyah.
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« Reply #28 on: Apr 15, 2006, 07:43AM »

I can hear John Cage laughing his way to the bank again.

I believe that, sometimes, he's played it for longer. Sometimes.... *gasp*.... for over six minutes! Is this, then, the same composition, or did he thereby create yet another masterpiece? Yeah, RIGHT.
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« Reply #29 on: Apr 15, 2006, 07:54AM »

According to an actual lawsuit from the Cage people againt a guy who had a similar piece of silence for a different duration, it's the same.
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« Reply #30 on: Apr 15, 2006, 08:01AM »

Quote from: "RedHotMama"
I believe that, sometimes, he's played it for longer. Sometimes.... *gasp*.... for over six minutes! Is this, then, the same composition, or did he thereby create yet another masterpiece? Yeah, RIGHT.


If you actually knew anything about the piece, the answer would be evident. Maybe you should consider buying the music and reading the performance notes.
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« Reply #31 on: Apr 15, 2006, 08:05AM »

Heh. I would, but I'm darned if I'm giving him another excuse to go to the bank.
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Christine (red hot - that's what!)
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« Reply #32 on: Apr 15, 2006, 11:46AM »

Quote from: "RedHotMama"
I believe that, sometimes, he's played it for longer. Sometimes.... *gasp*.... for over six minutes! Is this, then, the same composition, or did he thereby create yet another masterpiece? Yeah, RIGHT.


he renamed it 0:00 because he didn't feel like it would be right to have the constraint of duration applied to a piece.
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« Reply #33 on: Apr 15, 2006, 12:57PM »

yes, music has been around as long as there have been ears to hear such sounds as birds AS MUSICAL...which, they are, happily.

but in the context of a concert hall, 4'33" was probably the first piece to exploit such sounds...make them the focus... like not an audience there to listen and watch people on stage... but people to listen to themselves be an active participant in the musicmaking process.

justin
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« Reply #34 on: Apr 15, 2006, 01:00PM »

and this is correct... he did do a second version for "anyone performing any actions, including nothing." called 0'00"... so as not to impose a time limit.

i have nothing to say, and i am saying it.

you can say that again.

i just did.

didn't i?

no.

and YES.

justin
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« Reply #35 on: Apr 15, 2006, 01:47PM »

*rotfl!*

I just can't tell which of you guys is being serious about this thing.
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Christine (red hot - that's what!)
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« Reply #36 on: Apr 15, 2006, 06:20PM »

Quote from: "slideride"
how about that if you play a gig at a restaurant and smell food cooking while you are playing?

Nope. I'm talking about scents actually programmed along with the music, not just ambient smells.

Anyway, I think your whole argument about 4'33" being the last innovation doesn't work. Just because you're incorporating elements from something that came before doesn't mean you aren't innovating. Picasso put paint on a canvas just like thousands of artists before him. How he put the paint on the canvas is what made him an innovator. Einstein was considered an innovator, but he was working with the same numbers as everyone else. It's what he did with them that set him apart.

John Cage once said that "If someone says 'can't,' that shows you what to do". More innovations are coming, whether or not you say they can't.
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« Reply #37 on: Apr 15, 2006, 08:24PM »

Well, truly I don't know what to think about John Cage. Some people do say "oh it's great because it's unique", I'm not saying that all people think it's great simply because it's unique,  I don't know if it's great. I think it's interesting. I've also heard that the awkwardness in the audience is supposed to be the music of his 4'33".
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« Reply #38 on: Apr 16, 2006, 06:58PM »

i will not hold my breath.

i will not hold my breath

i will not hold my breat

i will not hold my brea

i will not hold my bre

i will not hold my br

i will not hold my b

i will not hold my

i will not hold m

i will not hold

i will not hold

i will not hold m

i will not hol

i will not hold my

i will not hold my breath.

i will not.

justin
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