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Author Topic: Conn 78H  (Read 9955 times)
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SensitiveJohn
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« on: Mar 23, 2006, 11:17AM »

Is it true that Conn is going to bring back the 78H?

What bell size did the Indiana 78H's have?  I have seen both 8" and 8 1/2" listed.
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Elkhart 88H
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 23, 2006, 12:22PM »

I certainly hope this rumor is true.  My 1966 Elkhart 78H is the best-playing medium-bore horn I've ever laid my hands on.  If Conn built a horn with an F attachment that plays like my vintage model, I'd buy one.

The Conn Loyalist site shows the bell options on 78H as 8", 8-1/2" and 8-3/4".  These numbers, along with a #3-1/2 bore size (.517"), came from a 1926 Conn catalog.  Another page on Christine's site says that the 78H was available with a 7-1/2" bell before WW II.  Postwar Elkhart horns were .522" bore with an 8" bell.
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Don Bilger
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tboner4me
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 23, 2006, 01:49PM »

I have a silver-plated 78H from Elkhart that matches Don's description - 8" bell, 0.522" bore.  Wonderful clear ringing tone - its my favorite (non-trigger) horn.
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dcoliver

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« Reply #3 on: Mar 23, 2006, 09:51PM »

I have an Elkhart 1970 78H, and the condtion is *really* amazing for a 36 year old trombone. It's like it was barely played. I'm the 3rd owner I think. It was made when I was eight years old, and I'm the one who's worse for the wear.

By the 60's and into the early 70's, the bell was 8". 8 1/2" was and is the traditional 88H bell size. Remember also that "student" horns then didn't have 8" bells as they do today. My early 70's 77H step-up (on Christine's site) has 7.5" bell, which was common then for student line models. The 77H bore is also .500", but most of the sites seem to have it as a .525" which is incorrect.

I'm essentially repeating what Elkhart 88H wrote (like that name!), but double validation is always a good thing...

(BTW, the F-attach. version was the 79H. Blessing did the B7 and B78 without and with F attach respectively, which confuses people thinking Conn had the same convention. I always thought the B7 was closer to a King 3B than Conn 78H - at least in bore size - though I may be wrong.)
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 24, 2006, 05:08PM »

I hope they do bring it back.  I've wanted a good medium bore trombone fora while but i'm not partial to bach 36s. I'd rather have one with a more rounded crook... more like a smaller 88h would be better.
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 26, 2006, 01:59AM »

How much would one of those be? Would be very nice Grin

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stampen

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« Reply #6 on: Mar 27, 2006, 01:14PM »

I also own an Elkhart 1970 78H. Very thin 8 inch yellow brass bell. Unsoldered rim. The easiest blowing and fastest responding horn I own.(And I own several smaller ones).  It's like a Yamaha... but good.

It was the first horn I ever bought on ebay. From Matthew Stoecker.

I love it.

/A
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mwpfoot
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 27, 2006, 04:07PM »

Quote from: "SensitiveJohn"
Is it true that Conn is going to bring back the 78H?

Just curious, are you basing this question on anything?

 Don't know
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Brian Santero

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« Reply #8 on: Mar 27, 2006, 04:32PM »

Quote from: "stampen"
It's like a Yamaha... but good.


Ouch.



I've always been wondering if Conn would offer a medium bore horn.
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wayne88ny
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 28, 2006, 05:48AM »

Quote from: "Tsunamibone"
I've always been wondering if Conn would offer a medium bore horn.

As many of you know, Conn does offer a .525 slide for the Conn 8H/88H.  What many of you may not know is that you can special order an 8" bell.  Deborah Weisz, for example, plays an 8HT with a .525 slide and an 8" bell.  

http://www.deborahweisz.com/bio.html

Since so many people seem to be interested in a medium bore Conn, perhaps Steve Ferguson could be persuaded to order a .525 8H with an 8" bell.  It could be whole new market for him (and Steve can pay me a commission for giving him the idea. lol).

Just think, you can get a .525 bore Conn with an 8", 8.5" or 9" (K) bell.  So many choices!
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Elkhart 88H
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 28, 2006, 06:21AM »

Quote from: "wayne88ny"
Quote from: "Tsunamibone"
I've always been wondering if Conn would offer a medium bore horn.

As many of you know, Conn does offer a .525 slide for the Conn 8H/88H.  What many of you may not know is that you can special order an 8" bell.  Deborah Weisz, for example, plays an 8HT with a .525 slide and an 8" bell.  

http://www.deborahweisz.com/bio.html

Since so many people seem to be interested in a medium bore Conn, perhaps Steve Ferguson could be persuaded to order a .525 8H with an 8" bell.  It could be whole new market for him (and Steve can pay me a commission for giving him the idea. lol).

Just think, you can get a .525 bore Conn with an 8", 8.5" or 9" (K) bell.  So many choices!


An 8H or 88H with a .525" slide is not the same as a 78H or 79H, even if it has the special-order 8" bell.  The 78H had a different gooseneck and tuning slide than the 8H.  It also had a bell design that Conn no longer offers -- a thinwall yellow 8" bell with an unsoldered rim.  In my opinion, the thin yellow bell and special gooseneck are key elements in the 78H's easy blow, fast response and ability to hold the sound together at ffff while still allowing the player to color the sound over the horn's dynamic range.
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Don Bilger
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Trav1s
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 08:54AM »


As many of you know, Conn does offer a .525 slide for the Conn 8H/88H.  What many of you may not know is that you can special order an 8" bell.  Deborah Weisz, for example, plays an 8HT with a .525 slide and an 8" bell. 

http://www.deborahweisz.com/bio.html

Since so many people seem to be interested in a medium bore Conn, perhaps Steve Ferguson could be persuaded to order a .525 8H with an 8" bell.  It could be whole new market for him (and Steve can pay me a commission for giving him the idea. lol).

Just think, you can get a .525 bore Conn with an 8", 8.5" or 9" (K) bell.  So many choices!

An 8H or 88H with a .525" slide is not the same as a 78H or 79H, even if it has the special-order 8" bell.  The 78H had a different gooseneck and tuning slide than the 8H.  It also had a bell design that Conn no longer offers -- a thinwall yellow 8" bell with an unsoldered rim.  In my opinion, the thin yellow bell and special gooseneck are key elements in the 78H's easy blow, fast response and ability to hold the sound together at ffff while still allowing the player to color the sound over the horn's dynamic range.

Back from the dead...

Just trying to figure out what I like so much about my 79H.  E88H, got any more info on the bell and gooseneck? 

I have noticed it is very easy to color the tone at various volumes and with different mouthpieces. 

Thanks!
Travis
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 03:11PM by BorisT72 » Logged

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sftrombone
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2007, 11:01AM »

Is it true that Conn is going to bring back the 78H?

I can't say that it is.  I was just at the Eastlake plant and talked to them about it.  They know about the tooling differences between 78 and 88, and didn't think the sales numbers were there to justify another model right now.

SF
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Dantheman

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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2007, 01:18PM »

Seems to me like the sales numbers would improve if they started manufacturing some of their old lollipops again. 6H 78H etc. I don't get the feeling that even a good 100H is seen as a substitute for a 6H.
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Ellrod

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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2007, 03:04PM »

Making "vintage" re-issues seems to have been pretty successful for guitar manufacturers such as Fender and Gibson.
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2007, 09:49PM »

yea, i think instead of new models, a line of "reissues" would sell tons...

or theyd just keep losing sales to shires, edwards, rath, getzen, etc.,. because of better craftsmanship.

shrug
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2007, 11:03AM »

I can't say that it is.  I was just at the Eastlake plant and talked to them about it.  They know about the tooling differences between 78 and 88, and didn't think the sales numbers were there to justify another model right now.

SF

I could understand this position if Conn-Selmer would have to spend vast sums of money to refurbish or re-create the tooling for the 78H and 79H. The fact that they use the same bell mandrel as the 88H shoots a hole in this argument, though, and suggests that the company's position is more a case of short-sighted management.
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Don Bilger
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2007, 11:20AM »

So what makes you think that re-introducing the 79H and 78H built by folks in Eastlake who have never made them before is going to generate enough sales to displace the "industry standard" horns from Bach, Getzen, and Yamaha?  I doubt they'd ever take business from Rath, Shires, or Edwards.

Conn made a decision to offer the 88H with some modularity to "emulate" a 79H (2525 slide) so they don't have to actually tool a whole new horn.  Given that the "moneymaker" horns right now are the 547's, they need to make the 88H compete with the Bach 42, Getzen 1047/3047, Yamaha 682/882, etc.  If the market moves back to medium bore trombones (and the school market is the driving force here; the adult players just don't buy enough horns to generate manufacturing decisions) then I'm sure the 88H will be converted to make a true 79H (convertible to 78H).

It's cheap to claim on this board that you'd buy a new 78H.  Will you back that up with some cash?
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2007, 12:25PM »

If Conn built a new 79H that played like my 78H, I would buy it.  My music fund has enough cash in it to to cover the street price of a new 88H, so this is not idle talk on my part.  Unfortunately the bean counters at Eastlake (or at the Conn-Selmer corporate offices) are apparently running the show and are a risk-averse bunch when it comes to product planning, so I don't expect them to take a chance on a design that could transform the medium-bore market segment.

The 88H with the SL2525 slide is not and never will be a 79H replacement.  It emulates the Conn medium-bore horns of the past, but as a wise old engineer once told me, emulation is not reality.

As for the "industry standard" medium bores from Bach, Yamaha and Getzen, I've tried the first two and found them wanting.  The fact that the third one (Getzen 1036F) uses a bell flare copied from the Bach 36 leaves me completely unmotivated to try it.
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Don Bilger
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2007, 01:33PM »

Uhhh...

Shires regular weight, Conn-width .525 slide...T25 is the model number...with a small receiver leadpipe. (The 2.5 pipe is closest to the 78H feel I believe, although I prefer the #3. A #2 might work also.)

2RVE or 2RVET7 (a little lightened in the flare) bell in 8" size.

Voilą!!! Le 78H!!!

Or...if you like the yellow brass 78Hs better, Steve can do that too.

For the price of a clapped-out Toyota.

Not bad...

S.

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