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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, slide advantage) Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!
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stvatt
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« Reply #360 on: Feb 12, 2017, 07:58PM »

The Cronkhite diameter is about 12 inches at the bell. Combined with the detachable slide case, it is 31"x15"x"12. I just spent 20 minutes on the phone with AA special assistance, and they made it sound like the only way to fit would be in the closet.
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« Reply #361 on: Jun 05, 2017, 01:06AM »

Air Canada.... Not so nice... I was told that I would not be able to bring my horn on, reasonably/affordably for my trip from Denver to Taipei this summer (3 week trip). I have one of those SKB travel cases, the big plastic monster of a thing. However, that case is designed for a large bore horn I think, I am afraid my little bitty BAC small bore with 7.5in bell is not going to fit right in that case, let alone survive the TSA, Mounties, and whatever you call the security guys in Taiwan.

Now, some will ask, how much do you really need your horn for this trip, is it a gig? No it is not a gig, and it is simply surprising my Fiancees family of our recent engagement. But I am terrified that I will lose significant chops if I do not have my horn with me, on my face for 3 weeks.

This leads me to a few questions.

1. Having already had one horn destroyed by airlines (Southwest, Courtois AC420), is it worth using the same case with a small bore horn to check for well over 14 hours in the belly of a plane and in the hands of airline personnel, regardless of how well I pack the thing?

2. If I did not bring my horn, how much would it kill my chops to just bring a mouthpiece and leadpipe and buzz for 3 weeks straight?

3. Is it worth getting my bell chopped and buying a screw bell case that will be easily confused for a viola, and therefore automatically be allowed on the plane?

All help is good help!! Thank you for reading!
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bigbassbone1

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« Reply #362 on: Jun 05, 2017, 04:45AM »

Air Canada.... Not so nice... I was told that I would not be able to bring my horn on, reasonably/affordably for my trip from Denver to Taipei this summer (3 week trip). I have one of those SKB travel cases, the big plastic monster of a thing. However, that case is designed for a large bore horn I think, I am afraid my little bitty BAC small bore with 7.5in bell is not going to fit right in that case, let alone survive the TSA, Mounties, and whatever you call the security guys in Taiwan.

Now, some will ask, how much do you really need your horn for this trip, is it a gig? No it is not a gig, and it is simply surprising my Fiancees family of our recent engagement. But I am terrified that I will lose significant chops if I do not have my horn with me, on my face for 3 weeks.

This leads me to a few questions.

1. Having already had one horn destroyed by airlines (Southwest, Courtois AC420), is it worth using the same case with a small bore horn to check for well over 14 hours in the belly of a plane and in the hands of airline personnel, regardless of how well I pack the thing?

2. If I did not bring my horn, how much would it kill my chops to just bring a mouthpiece and leadpipe and buzz for 3 weeks straight?

3. Is it worth getting my bell chopped and buying a screw bell case that will be easily confused for a viola, and therefore automatically be allowed on the plane?

All help is good help!! Thank you for reading!


In your position, I would just pack the case with foam and clothes etc around the trombone in the case to keep it secure. Also stick a foam cone up the bell. Surely you can mutilate or adjust the case with other stuff so that it fits more snuggly and wont get bumped around?

Failing that, it you have the cash and do decide to go the screw bell way, I used to have a screw bell bass and I flew very often. Instead of shelling out big money for a custom screw bell case, just get a double or triple trumpet case. Second hand they are dirt cheap, definitely small enough for any carry on and will still probably have space for a book or other such items in it. For the slide, I just bought a single slide compartment from Cronkhite that came from his travel gig bag design. It came with a strap so was easy to carry and Glen made mine exactly for my slide. With that getup I got on every domestic and international flight I did for many years. Even if you cant get a Cronkhite slide case there are other options you can explore that are effective. Using that and the trumpet bag is not only cheaper than any custom screw bell case I could find, its also significantly smaller than any of those designs also.
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Matt K

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« Reply #363 on: Jun 05, 2017, 04:52AM »

I'm sorry to hear about your incident with Southwest. I've had the most success with that airline (although Ive admittedly not flown very much) as well as international travel with that case.  There are two things to consider:

The Eastman tenor cases are much more compact. THey are cheaper than a screwbell conversion and are really durable. Not as durable as the SKB for sure, but I've had to check them twice and they were OK.  More importantly, If you use a single shoudler strap, you can position it so that when you get on board the plane you can sort of hide it around your body so that they can't tell how big it is.  If they don't ask, then don't ask them if it'll fit  Evil  If they make you check it, then take the shoulder strap off so it doesn't get snagged on something. Chances are it'll be ok if you've packaged it all right. 

Do the styrofoam Christmas tree and some T shirts and it should be fine.  You could probably do that with SKB too but it is bigger and would be harder to sneak on. 

That said, the screw bells are really neat. I don't think you could get that done in 3 weeks though. That's a pretty aggressive turn around time both for the procedure, all the parts, and the case itself.  And really you're in no better shape if they run out of space than you are with the Eastman cases.
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« Reply #364 on: Jun 05, 2017, 05:34AM »

May I suggest 2 radically different ideas? But first let me say I am an amateur, though I like to think of myself as a "high end" amateur, but an amateur none the less. That said, here are my two ideas.

1) Its not a gig so you do not need to sound your best. You do not need your good horn. Buy a used horn or cheap horn here you do not care about. it will be good enough for practicing and you won't care if it is destroyed en route. Or with the help of your new inlaws look ahead and buy a cheap horn at your destination and ship it home from there after the trip. I would not take a chance with a fine horn if its not a gig. You can practice on a junker.

2) I have seen on this forum that Denis Wick wrote that pro trb players should take off three weeks or so each summer in the off season, he then describes a one week process for getting chops back to speed and says you will be better after the break and rebuild. I expect you can find the article with a search.

MJL
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« Reply #365 on: Jun 05, 2017, 07:05AM »

Another suggestion along the lines of Mark's: If you're not playing for a gig, you could buy a p-Bone. They're cheap, they can be carried on without a problem, they fit in almost any luggage bin, you can stuff the bag with lots of junk (clothes, books, etc.), and they're replaceable. I've travelled with mine to Seattle, Phoenix, LA, and SF without accidents or injuries--Alaska, SW, Delta and United. You might sound a bit like you're playing an old Conn Director (unless, of course, you're Jiggs Whigham!), but if it's just for practice and not for performance, what does it matter?
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« Reply #366 on: Jun 05, 2017, 07:27AM »

(1) Don't take a horn and don't worry about it.  Just take the time off, if you're in good shape now it won't hurt you.  Enjoy Taipei, it's a nice place.  GREAT food.

(2) There are lots of good trombone players in Taipei, I know some and they speak good English.  Rent, buy, or borrow a horn there.  You will end up spending a LOT less doing it that way.  The amount of excess baggage fees will pay for a rental.

(3) Take an alto and carry it on.

I virtually always carry my horn on and I've never had a problem doing so.  The only times I have put a horn through baggage were in an SKB golf case.  For international flights the excess baggage charge isn't worth it.  I think the time I did that going to Brazil it's didn't cost extra, but it does now.
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« Reply #367 on: Jun 05, 2017, 07:38AM »



Now, some will ask, how much do you really need your horn for this trip, is it a gig? No it is not a gig, and it is simply surprising my Fiancees family of our recent engagement. But I am terrified that I will lose significant chops if I do not have my horn with me, on my face for 3 weeks.



Danger, Will Robinson!

You're going across the globe to meet very important family members, in one of the more interesting and exotic places in the world, and you're going to spend the time practicing? 

Dude!  Don't do it.  Impress the family that you gave up trombone for them!  because the alternative can be grim.  And enjoy the sights. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #368 on: Jun 05, 2017, 11:13AM »

Air Canada.... Not so nice... I was told that I would not be able to bring my horn on, reasonably/affordably for my trip from Denver to Taipei this summer (3 week trip). I have one of those SKB travel cases, the big plastic monster of a thing. However, that case is designed for a large bore horn I think, I am afraid my little bitty BAC small bore with 7.5in bell is not going to fit right in that case, let alone survive the TSA, Mounties, and whatever you call the security guys in Taiwan.

I frequently fly Air Canada with trombones and never had a problem taking it with me as a carry-on, especially not since they adopted their musical instrument policy a couple years ago (and they were just named the world's best airline for musicians by the International Federation of Musicians less than a month ago). Only once did a gate agent suggest it might be too big and I simply told her it had always fit before, and that I had pictures of my case in overhead bins of various plane models if she wanted to see (she didn't insist and let me on). Your Vancouver-Taipei flight will be on one of their new 787s - they have HUGE overhead bins. Your Denver-Vancouver flight is likely to be on a much smaller plane. A compact case should still fit (although perhaps tightly).


First of all, since they operate in the US, they have to be FAA compliant (even for flight legs that are outside the US). I always print and bring a copy of the FAA final rule on the transportation of musical instruments with me https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Musical%20instruments_FR_final%20rule.pdf, which states that carriers have to accepts instruments that physically fit in the overhead bins or other approved storage compartment.

Also, AC's policy is that A) you can take an instrument with you even if it's slightly larger than the standard carry-on limit as long as it fits in the overheads and B) if you carry an instrument, you get priority boarding (after kids, people with disabilities and business class customers).

I use a Cronkhite small tenor gig bag and it fits in even the small Embraer and Q-series aircrafts. On my last trip to Asia on AC my two colleagues both had double cases (large bore+alto) and were allowed to take them on board without question.
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« Reply #369 on: Jun 05, 2017, 04:07PM »

I frequently fly Air Canada with trombones and never had a problem taking it with me as a carry-on, especially not since they adopted their musical instrument policy a couple years ago (and they were just named the world's best airline for musicians by the International Federation of Musicians less than a month ago). Only once did a gate agent suggest it might be too big and I simply told her it had always fit before, and that I had pictures of my case in overhead bins of various plane models if she wanted to see (she didn't insist and let me on). Your Vancouver-Taipei flight will be on one of their new 787s - they have HUGE overhead bins. Your Denver-Vancouver flight is likely to be on a much smaller plane. A compact case should still fit (although perhaps tightly).


First of all, since they operate in the US, they have to be FAA compliant (even for flight legs that are outside the US). I always print and bring a copy of the FAA final rule on the transportation of musical instruments with me https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Musical%20instruments_FR_final%20rule.pdf, which states that carriers have to accepts instruments that physically fit in the overhead bins or other approved storage compartment.

Also, AC's policy is that A) you can take an instrument with you even if it's slightly larger than the standard carry-on limit as long as it fits in the overheads and B) if you carry an instrument, you get priority boarding (after kids, people with disabilities and business class customers).

I use a Cronkhite small tenor gig bag and it fits in even the small Embraer and Q-series aircrafts. On my last trip to Asia on AC my two colleagues both had double cases (large bore+alto) and were allowed to take them on board without question.

That information is very helpful! I use the exact same gig bag, when I read off the dimensions to the lady on the phone, she said that I would not receive a red tag to board the plane as the dimensions exceed the total 141cm or something like that. As far as equipment I am flying on, I am on the CRJ-705 from Denver to YVR, then with only 60 minutes to get from that flight to the 787-9. Do the CRJ-705's have overheads that can accommodate the Cronkhite small tenor bag? Perhaps I converted my inches to cm wrong? I have never been much of a math guy haha!  :D
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« Reply #370 on: Jun 05, 2017, 04:14PM »

The key is, NEVER ASK IF IT'S OK TO CARRY IT ON, especially on the phone or at the ticket counter - they will always say no. 

Just do it, unobtrusively, and you won't have any problems.
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« Reply #371 on: Jun 05, 2017, 08:27PM »

As Doug just said, never ask. The lady most probably said that because she knows the numbers for regular carry-on size since they get asked that all the time - they most often don't know the specifics of FAA regulations, let alone their own company's obscure musical instrument policy.

I haven't had a problem on a CRJ before, but I'm not sure I've flown on one with Air Canada - I have with United and Delta. Aircraft interiors being built to the airline's specifications, overhead bin size may vary on the same model depending on airline, so I can't say for sure. But you should be fine. I would only be worried about overhead size on the smallest Embraer planes.

Edit : For what it's worth, I looked among my aforementioned pictures and found this. I believe I took this picture in a CRJ-700 series aircraft (might have been a 900) on a Delta flight : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7HrDrR13lr2a1RzMnNLWEx0VmM/view
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #372 on: Jun 06, 2017, 01:50AM »

Oh and on a different note, the Mounties don't screen luggage any more than the FBI does. That would be the CATSA.

;-)
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #373 on: Jun 06, 2017, 07:06PM »

The key is, NEVER ASK IF IT'S OK TO CARRY IT ON, especially on the phone or at the ticket counter - they will always say no. 

Just do it, unobtrusively, and you won't have any problems.

Ditto. I've never had a problem with carrying it on a plane - Eastman case for my Edwards - and I have always just walked on with it. One gate attendant gave me a slip to gate-check it without asking me, she literally just tied it to my case without asking. I walked on with it anyway and stowed it in the overhead with no problems.

I even had a good experience when I carried it onto a commuter plane when my case ACTUALLY didn't fit. The flight attendant simply stored it in the front closet with the extra jackets/uniforms. Great service.
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« Reply #374 on: Jul 06, 2017, 04:47AM »

Little update for the person that das asking about the CRJ700 overhead bins.

I just walked off of one, and I confirm that the above picture was of a 900,not a 700. The the smallest Cronkhite bag does fits, but it das tight. I doubt anything larger will.
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