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Author Topic: The Father of atonality.  (Read 9749 times)
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Frank B
« Reply #20 on: Apr 06, 2007, 11:04AM »

Atonality, just meaning not really a tonal center?

Then Debussey definatetly comes to mind. Bartok, Listz, Wagner, Strauss, Brahms, Bach, Ives, Stravinsky, many renissance composers, and the list goes on and on.

Tonality really seemed to hit stride around the classical period. It is not by any stretch of the imagination all-encompasing of the classical music genera. You'll find pieces without tonal centers since the music has been recorded up till present day.

I hope we're really not looking to simply say this composer can only write in this style and this composer in this other style. Even the oft mentioned Schoenberg, it should not be forgotten, wrote multiple large tonal works.

ps. if you want to have some clue of what shoenberg did and why, he has many writtings on the matter. His theory of harmony is rather quite interesting and a very different, but very profound take.

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« Reply #21 on: Apr 08, 2007, 08:42AM »

i so want to write gesualdo here, but well, the renesanse tradition did have tonal centers, they just did not use the functional harmony.

i feel one also has to mention edgar varese?  imo he's "more" atonal than debussy, and the mentioned romantic composers (strauss, wagner etc).

but yeah, maybe lizst is the best guess..?
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« Reply #22 on: Apr 09, 2007, 10:38PM »

shoenberg wrote very very tonal music before his students invented 12 tone, look at his earlier piano pieces (even the one for toy piano....all 8 minutes of it) so the bach idolitary makes sense.
he was not really the person who pionerred it per se, he only is the most famous for it.

as to the first person....we would have to define tonality and it's origin: did it come with equal temprament? when Bach systematized music so much? are we real? is music really all its cracked up to be?

ok joking aside,
i find it hard to believe Mozart could have written atonal music...but thats another rant for another day!

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« Reply #23 on: Apr 12, 2007, 04:44AM »

Bagatelle ohne Toneart - Listz

I don't know this piece, but I second Liszt, at least in the classical music tradition. I was introduced to a piece of his with some french title about clouds - I don't remember exactly what it was - that was very lacking in a tonal center back in the day of my Music History classes.

Of course, African drumming or something similar probably qualifies for the first atonal music EVER.

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« Reply #24 on: Apr 12, 2007, 06:04AM »

You're not thinking of the Debussy piano prelude, "Brouillard," are you?


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« Reply #25 on: Apr 12, 2007, 04:26PM »

Probably Liszt's "Grey Clouds".  I forget how to spell it in French. . .Nuages Gris <thank you google>.  I agree with your assessment too.
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