Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1088635 Posts in 71947 Topics- by 19313 Members - Latest Member: nelewis
Jump to:  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Mouthpiece Confusion  (Read 64378 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
wichman9
*
Offline Offline

Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: Jun 24, 2007
Posts: 1

View Profile
« on: Jun 25, 2007, 11:18AM »

OK, so I am a high school trombone player and I recently bought a Bach 42 BO. It came with a 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece, and the salesman said I could get a new mouthpiece for free if I didn't want that one. Meanwhile, my private teacher loaned me one of his old mouthpieces it is a Yamaha 57, it's an old model they don't make anymore (or so I was told). Anyway,I was wondering if I could get some reccomendations for a mouthpiece, I dabble in some Bass tromboning in my jazz band, and I don't want to lose my low range with a 6 1/2 AL, that's why I have the Yamaha because it's a little bigger. Can i get a few reccommendations for a new mouthpiece?
« Last Edit: Nov 24, 2007, 05:00PM by RedHotMama » Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51276
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Jun 25, 2007, 11:22AM »

OK, so I am a high school trombone player and I recently bought a Bach 42 BO. It came with a 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece, and the salesman said I could get a new mouthpiece for free if I didn't want that one. Meanwhile, my private teacher loaned me one of his old mouthpieces it is a Yamaha 57, it's an old model they don't make anymore (or so I was told). Anyway,I was wondering if I could get some reccomendations for a mouthpiece, I dabble in some Bass tromboning in my jazz band, and I don't want to lose my low range with a 6 1/2 AL, that's why I have the Yamaha because it's a little bigger. Can i get a few reccommendations for a new mouthpiece?

I also have a Yamaha 57, which I don't use much anymore.  It's about the size of a Bach 3G; maybe more toward a 2G.  The 2G is a "small bass" or "transition" mouthpiece for players who want to do both kinds of parts on one mouthpiece.

Btw, I'm going to move this to Mouthpieces, where you will get more suggestions.  Fasten seat belts...
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
NYTrombonist
« Reply #2 on: Jun 25, 2007, 02:34PM »

OK, so I am a high school trombone player and I recently bought a Bach 42 BO. It came with a 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece, and the salesman said I could get a new mouthpiece for free if I didn't want that one. Meanwhile, my private teacher loaned me one of his old mouthpieces it is a Yamaha 57, it's an old model they don't make anymore (or so I was told). Anyway,I was wondering if I could get some reccomendations for a mouthpiece, I dabble in some Bass tromboning in my jazz band, and I don't want to lose my low range with a 6 1/2 AL, that's why I have the Yamaha because it's a little bigger. Can i get a few reccommendations for a new mouthpiece?

Ask Doug Elliott.
He is around and KNOWS !!!!!!!!!!!
Logged
Dombat
*
Offline Offline

Location: Ulm, Germany
Joined: Sep 5, 2004
Posts: 1706

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Jun 25, 2007, 07:19PM »

in my opinion the 57 is a small bass mouthpiece, NOT a tenor mouthpiece, i used a 58 on my bass for a while for smaller bass work before moving to my 1. 6 1/2 are your stock mouthpiece and are generally not that great, even guys who like something similar usually fairly quickly got to 6 1/4 or 6 3/4. If you want to keep your low chops (and I'm not saying you can't have low chops on a 6.5, it is mostly your own strength) i'd recomend about a 4 or 5g. The 4 can be a bit of work in high school but if you can control it sounds great.
Logged
WaltTrombone
Former Titler of Teh Bick!

*
Offline Offline

Location: Garrison, NY
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 8850
"Ein Prosit, ein Prosit, der Gemütlichkeit!"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: Jun 25, 2007, 07:36PM »

The 57 is indeed not made anymore. The Schilke 57 is, you may want to try one of those. At least in Schilke's specs, the 57 is only about .3mm smaller than a Yamaha 58, which is still made.

If anything, unless you plan to move into more full-time bass tromboning, I'd go just a tad smaller, like a Yamaha 56. Only about .25-.3mm smaller than a 57. In Bach sizes, in between a 2G and 3G, maybe closer to the 3G. If you mostly play bass, and are looking for a mpce. for doubling on tenor, that size range will probably be OK. The conventional wisdom for sizes on large tenors usually puts players on a size between 50 and 53, in Schilke/Yamaha numbers, Bach 5G to 3G.
Logged

Walter Barrett
http://www.walterbarrett.com/
Yamaha Artist/Clinician
Alto, Tenor, Bass Trombones
Bass Trumpet
Euphonium, Tuba
Doug Elliott
Lord of the Rims

*
*
Online Online

Location: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 6738

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Jun 26, 2007, 09:16AM »

Without knowledge of you, your playing, or where you're coming from, no one can give you valid advice.

But I'm going to suggest staying with what you have and using both, the 6-1/2 for tenor and the 57 for bass.  That will give you some perspective to base future opinions on.
Logged

www.DougElliottMouthpieces.com
XT LexanN104,C+,D2, Williams 6, K&H Slokar alto, K&H Slokar Solo .547 open wrap
Bob1062
« Reply #6 on: Jun 27, 2007, 01:16PM »

I like the 6.5 and 57/whatever combo. That will give you a different enough sound to warrant changing mouthpieces. I wouldn't go for anything like a 3G or smaller, as I don't think it will give you enough difference. Unless you want to play a 3G for everything that is. :D


You might like the FAXX 1.5G, especially if the 57 is a (discontinued) loaner.



Congratulations on the new horn!
Every now and then I really think about going to a 42B with a 6.5 and a 1.5G; I think it's a GREAT combo.
Logged
dj kennedy

*
Offline Offline

Location: chester illinois usa
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 12174

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Jun 30, 2007, 06:47AM »


used  6 1/2 s  are easy to find 
 so  i would  trade it for   a  new   mpc    5g  5gb   --
 you  will still hhave low  range  even w  the 6 1/2 
one size  doesnt  fit  all  // players facial structure  differ
-----
sometimesit  takes  years      to find  an optimun   fit [or direction]
 of  maybe  playing  next to  doug  on  a  tour  !!!!!!!!!
------------
  shilke 57  is  towards the  large   size  for  a  42b --
however  6 1/2  have been  and continue to be   used  w  42b  by   some  players --
=========
adjust your   ears   to  the sounds  of  bass   and   large tenor 
have  a  sound  concept  !!!!!!!! Pant Pant Pant Pant
==========
stick  a 1 1/2  g in the 42  -ITS STILL NOT  GONNA BLOW LIKE  A BASS BONE
===========
dont  be  a  DABBLER  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  BE  A DOUBLER
========
your  low range  depends on  flexibility 
=======
just  like  high  range 
the magic is in the  player






OK, so I am a high school trombone player and I recently bought a Bach 42 BO. It came with a 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece, and the salesman said I could get a new mouthpiece for free if I didn't want that one. Meanwhile, my private teacher loaned me one of his old mouthpieces it is a Yamaha 57, it's an old model they don't make anymore (or so I was told). Anyway,I was wondering if I could get some reccomendations for a mouthpiece, I dabble in some Bass tromboning in my jazz band, and I don't want to lose my low range with a 6 1/2 AL, that's why I have the Yamaha because it's a little bigger. Can i get a few reccommendations for a new mouthpiece?
Logged

XXXXooOOOOOXXXXXXXXX
LUCKY  LUCKY LUCKY  !!!!!!!!!!
The Bone Ranger

*
Offline Offline

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Joined: Mar 17, 2002
Posts: 981

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Jun 30, 2007, 07:01AM »


===========
dont  be  a  DABBLER  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  BE  A DOUBLER
========

Now that's a great line!!

Andrew (who is making the transition between the two...)
Logged
wwwShadow7

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jul 6, 2007
Posts: 572

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Jul 06, 2007, 08:28PM »

I'm just a dabbler, so use thine grain of salt.

For Bass Trombone I'm happy with a Schilke 59, although my G&W Don Harwood doesn't break up as easily at the higher volume levels like the 59 does. 

The Bach 42 is more of a large bore tenor than a Bass.  I tend to favor a Bach 5GS on the tenor side.  You might want something slightly bigger for a 42, especially if you're gonna be playing Bass Trombone parts.  Maybe a Bach 1.5G, 2G, 3G, or 4G.  It seems like the Yamaha 57 is well suited(maybe on the big side) for the horn and its intended use.  Give it a couple weeks and see how you feel about it then.  You should be able to guess if you want to go bigger or smaller at that point.

For me adjusting to a larger mouthpiece takes longer than adjusting to a smaller one.  So don't dismiss a piece based on first impressions.  Give it a couple weeks, or a month and then compare it to what you're used to.  But at first glance a 6 1/2AL is most likely too small for the horn and it's intended use.  Not that you can't do everything you need to on a 6 1/2, but you might find it easier on something with a little more room.
Logged
slidejj

*
Offline Offline

Location: Nashville TN
Joined: Dec 28, 2002
Posts: 1213

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Jul 09, 2007, 02:01PM »

The 6.5AL size pieces (Yamaha/Schilke 50, Wick 6BL etc) are good all around tenor mouthpieces, especially for students.  The 57/2G or 58/1.5G sizes are great for bass trombone, especially students and doublers.  I played a 6.5 and 1.5G as I was learning large tenor and bass and after years of playing larger size mouthpieces I'm finding myself moving back toward those sizes... going back to my roots or just returning to where I should have been all along Clever
Logged

-JJ

Bass, tenor trombone and euphonium

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." - Sergei Rachmaninoff
Paisios
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 25

View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: Nov 23, 2007, 07:35AM »

Remington anyone?
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51276
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Nov 23, 2007, 09:55AM »

Remington anyone?

The Remington is not made any more although there seem to be an awful lot of them on Ebay.  They usually came on a special shank to fit the Elkhart Conn 8/88H (although I have one with a small shank).  The first "good" mouthpiece I got (from my 2nd teacher, who studied with Remington) was a Remington small shank.

You can get very similar results from a 5G-sized mouthpiece.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Paisios
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 25

View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: Nov 23, 2007, 06:18PM »

Well that shows you how out of touch I am! When did they stop making this mouthpiece? I use a Remington....my old teacher, Fred Marzan, had me get one the same time I got my 88H. Apparently I was taught trombone the same way Remington did. Marzan was a student of Bill Bell. So he passed on some great knowledge. He claimed it was the last mouthpiece I'd buy....he was right. I would recommend grabbing up a Remington if possible. But, I am biased and have used this mouthpiece exclusively for 16 years.
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51276
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Nov 24, 2007, 06:03AM »

Please don't get me wrong, Paisios, I played a Remington for quite a while until I decided I needed something a little bigger and moved to the 4 rim (first a 4C, then a 4G when I got a large bore trombone, and now a Wick 4BS).  I keep my Remington in the case with the "emergency trombone" in my trunk and use it from time to time.

Conn probably stopped offering the Remington when Chief died.  At one time there was a Marcellus (I believe it was from Benge, but they were all under one roof then).  One Conn I got came with something called "Artist", which sure felt like a Remington.

There is probably a set of Elliott parts you can buy that would come close to a Remington, but Doug would probably have to tell us which.

Unfortunately "endorsed" mouthpieces don't go on forever, and often fall victim to changing tastes.  You don't see a Bell tuba mouthpiece anymore, nor a Pryor trombone (it's quite small by today's standards).  While we revere Remington for his teaching legacy and the huge number of his students now teaching, today's preeminent educators and players are flogging their own mouthpieces and methods.  Look at the Christian Lindberg and Joe Alessi series of mouthpieces.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Paisios
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 25

View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: Nov 24, 2007, 07:13AM »

Good points. Perhaps it is worthwhile to look into trying a new mouthpiece. Any recommendations for a remington user...I guess a second look at your post is in order!
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51276
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: Nov 24, 2007, 12:10PM »

Is there anything wrong with your current Remington?

If your Conn trombone has the old shank style, you can't use most of the newer mouthpieces on it.

Doug Elliott offers a special "Remington" shank and backbore but you have to ask for it.

The older Schilke mouthpieces used to have a shank that somehow managed to fit both the Conn taper and the Bach taper.  For you a 51D might be just the ticket (Remington mouthpieces have fairly deep cups).
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Screamin Trombone Playa

*
Offline Offline

Location: Waco, Tx
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 396

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Nov 24, 2007, 01:13PM »

Okay, I know I'm gonna get shot at when saying this, but for doubling on my Bach 42BO or Blessing B88, I just use my Christian Lindberg 5CL, great high register, and nice low. A lot of people around here don't like them, but the only other mouthpiece I've played on that feels as comfortable would be a Griego and I haven't been able to compare them(humm,,$55.00 Vs. $170.00), plus when I played on it I was still drooling over the Edwards it was in.LOL

It's not the right mouthpiece for a lot of people, but if it fits you like it fits me, then it's a match made in heaven. I'd recommend just getting a silver plated one for doubling, I have a hard time in my pedal range because it's so slippery, I can play the notes if they're like quARTER OR LARGER, BUT UNLESS I WIPE my mouthpiece off, they're hard to set up for. And if you don't like, people say they make a beautiful paperweight.
Logged
SandyMBarrows
Sanctification in Progress

*
Offline Offline

Location: DFW Area
Joined: Jan 17, 2003
Posts: 1285
"Professor 'Add Junk'"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: Nov 24, 2007, 04:54PM »

Being a Remington user (came with the Conn 88H back in 1966, that's what I used until Doug Elliott fixed me up recently with a set of cups and rim (see my profile) to fit the "R" leadpipe on the new Gen II 88H's. I also play a Conn 36H, 62H, and a MW 450S euphonium on a fairly frequent basis Eeek!. Unfortunately, Doug is "in between" right now as a mouthpiece maker Confused.

There is a Morse taper Bach that will be more congenial with your instrument. The 5GS, 5GB, Wick 5BL and 4BL with the large shank will more than likely suit your needs. IMHO, a 3G or equivalent is bordering on way too big for a large bore tenor trombone. Folks play 'em, though.

The Remington was such a beautiful match for the 88H's back in its day, and they sorta fit the "R" leadpipe on the new 88H's.  Hi

I am fortunate to have my DE set-up :D....perhaps he will be nudged back into business before too long Don't know. In the meantime, watch the TTF classified for something desireable for your use Clever.

Probably not much help, though. >:(
Logged

Kindest regards, and BLESSED DAY!!
-Sandy
Retired Pilot, Instructor,
Freelance Low Brass DFW Area

Miraphone Soprano, Shires .547 TruBore, Michael Davis .495, Bass dependent TruBore
DE Mouthpieces/Giddings-Webster
Paisios
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 25

View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: Nov 26, 2007, 02:59PM »

Thanks for all the info. I was more curious than anything. I will stick with the remington for sure. It's been good to me....and still is today!

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: