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Author Topic: Mouthpiece Confusion  (Read 61380 times)
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mclaugh
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« Reply #40 on: Sep 17, 2009, 11:55AM »

Of course, that is only my personal experience. Maybe you own both like me, and have measured them more accurately than I can with the old quarter I drop into them, and have noticed something I haven't.

A digital caliper that can measure in .001 mm increments with .0005 mm accuracy can be bought for less than $40. which is a helluva lot more accurate than eyeballing how far a quarter fits in the mpc cup.

Nobody cares HOW long or how often you've been playing your mpcs, how you use them, or whether or not YOU notice a difference. Bottom line: if your "facts" are wrong, they're wrong, and need to be corrected.

And, while we're at it, it's bErp, Buzz Extension and Resistance Piece, not bUrp.
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Torobone

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« Reply #41 on: Sep 17, 2009, 12:39PM »

A digital caliper that can measure in .001 mm increments with .0005 mm accuracy can be bought for less than $40. which is a helluva lot more accurate than eyeballing how far a quarter fits in the mpc cup.

Nobody cares HOW long or how often you've been playing your mpcs, how you use them, or whether or not YOU notice a difference. Bottom line: if your "facts" are wrong, they're wrong, and need to be corrected.

And, while we're at it, it's bErp, Buzz Extension and Resistance Piece, not bUrp.

My first flame! Thanks for that. I'll correct my spelling in post, as I'm sure everybody was as upset as you.

You have yourself a great rest of the day.
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Martin Hubel
Yamaha 891Z & 830 Xeno Bass, & '74 Bach 42B (played regularly)
Dan Hine

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« Reply #42 on: Sep 17, 2009, 02:44PM »

IMO, mclaugh did go a bit over board.  However, many people do read this forum and some are young students who don't have much experience.  It's good to make sure accurate information is out there.  That said, I wouldn't bother measuring your mouthpieces or mine for that matter.  It wouldn't be the first time for Bach to have inconsistencies in their machining.  Regardless of how accurate their machining and labeling may be, there is (supposed to be) more to the differences in mouthpieces than large/small shank.  That's all I was trying to say and didn't intend to come off as rude to anyone.

- Dan
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savio

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« Reply #43 on: Sep 17, 2009, 06:40PM »

A digital caliper that can measure in .001 mm increments with .0005 mm accuracy can be bought for less than $40. which is a helluva lot more accurate than eyeballing how far a quarter fits in the mpc cup.

Nobody cares HOW long or how often you've been playing your mpcs, how you use them, or whether or not YOU notice a difference. Bottom line: if your "facts" are wrong, they're wrong, and need to be corrected.

And, while we're at it, it's bErp, Buzz Extension and Resistance Piece, not bUrp.

We all get hung up in equipment some times. All trombone players in the world can agree with that statement. Both young, old, pro and amateur.
Confusion? Yes I think most trombone players can agree they have been experienced that once or twice.

Its so easy to tell people what they should do. The most easy thing to say is not be confused. Will it help? No.
Stop thinking about equipment and have fun and play? No it will not help.   Practice? No......

What then?   I have just one answear: To be confused is some times  OK and its good. Try to get your own answear. Have a teacher help you. Ask questions here in the trombone forum, listen music and be open minded, don't hurry take your time, try everything. But most of all try enjoying your own sound, try enjoy the music you make, try to figure out all what is good with your playing. And try to forget the equipment.


There was a professor in trumpet playing in Norway. (This is a story and I don't know if it is true but I think it is.)  His students found a really bad trumpet in a music shop. They ask their professor to try it and told him this was a really good trumpet. The professor did play Haydn very well on it and told the students this is a really good trumpet. And he left the store. That's a lesson but maybe not a true story? Maybe it is.

People in poor countries make music out of everything. We use calibers to make sure we can make music out from our expensive equipment ?

Anyway McLaugh, try what Sam say:  Everything, but throw your caliper a long way.



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Bass Trombone - Conn, Holton
Torobone

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« Reply #44 on: Sep 17, 2009, 07:10PM »

Thanks, the only thing I can offer is my personal experience. If somebody uses a digital caliper incorrectly, and posts their result, should we take it that the user, the mouthpiece or the equipment is faulty? How would we ever know?

If I can't see the difference in my mouthpieces, I'm free to say that. There may be a huge difference to you when you play it. Also, you can measure it and show me I should have felt a difference. Still, maybe I can't. Do what works for you. You paid the same for my advice as everyone else's. Your soft machine is different from mine.

I've also have two mouthpieces from the same manufacturer. Both are labelled 12C, but one is a 6 1/2 AL. I didn't need calipers to tell they were different, although simple measurements confirmed it. (The factory sent me another 6 1/2 AL.)

Just sayin'

As for spelling, we do our best. Few entries are flawless. Again, figure it out. Most people can. I try my best, and I correct what needs fixing. That's easy to do, and I also am interested in being correct. Also, I learn from other posters. The strength of a good forum is the collective wisdom of everybody.

Finally, if young students are reading this forum, what example of behavior do you want to show?

Takk, Savio.

Martin

PS. My footer is intentionally reversed, if you hadn't noticed. That's called humour.
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Martin Hubel
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savio

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« Reply #45 on: Sep 17, 2009, 07:50PM »

Martin,

The Vacum Cleaner is one of your instruments and my 1st choice among all instruments.  Good!


Regards

Leif
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #46 on: Sep 17, 2009, 08:12PM »

A digital caliper that can measure in .001 mm increments with .0005 mm accuracy can be bought for less than $40.

While you're correcting everybody else, you just might want to know the difference between millimeters and inches.  The numbers you quoted are inches, not mm.
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Piano man
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« Reply #47 on: Sep 18, 2009, 01:13AM »

This reminds me of selling stereo gear in the 80s.

You'd get the pseudo-sophisticate who smokes his pipe, and stroke his chin, and ask, 'What's the total harmonic distortion on this amplifier?'

Of course we always knew all the specs cold (because there's lots of down time, and after a while you get tired of everyone's same old stories, so you have to entertain yourself by actually learning about the products you're selling).

Still, I'd always ask, "I don't know, what's it sound like the THD is?"

In other words, if you can't hear it, who cares?
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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." --Mark Twain
Slushpump
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« Reply #48 on: Sep 27, 2009, 02:34PM »

When I studied with Dr. Fink, he told me I should be using a Remington with my 88H because it was made for the horn.  I bought one.  But, on the other hand, Dr. Fink used a Schilke mouthpiece on his 88H (forget the exact one he used though).  It seemed to be a bathtub compared to the Remington.
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wwwShadow7

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« Reply #49 on: Sep 29, 2009, 03:12AM »

I guess I should add that at one time I played a 5GS on tenor and bass.  I was first learning and it was all I had.  Although I was getting paid to play in the Army Band at the time.  Short story, there is no MOS for BASS trombone(or at least wasn't at that time).  So no one is going to play one regularly since you bump around in parts 1st, 2nd, sometimes 3rd or lower depending on the gig and who's available for it.  700+ gigs a year, even after 30 days of block leave in a given year.  Anyway, no brownie points for playing bass.  Anyway back to the 5GS.  Typical July 4th gig, I got tired of playing the part I was on, so I thought that I'd take up Bass to make it more interesting.  Tried as I might to honk out 1812 on a Bass with a 5GS, it was not easy going.

Basically don't get mouthpiece-itis.  This is my piece and I'm sticking to it no matter what.  Each horn IMO has a piece that it favors.  Which may not have any relation to the piece that you typically use.  Don't be affraid to try something different.  I tend to play mostly marching horns these days and those favor some pretty whacked pieces relative to their non-marching counterparts.  Some of which fall into that specification gap 26mm-27mm.  Too small and everything is stuffy.  Too big and the horns plays too flat to play in an ensemble.  I tend to favor an 11C for pea shooters.  And a 5GS for larger tenors.  But my Yamaha favors a G&W Harry Watters which is somewhere between the two.  Playing that horn on either of the other two makes for some unnecessary challenges.  If only for me.
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Dukesboneman

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« Reply #50 on: Apr 10, 2010, 07:01PM »

I`ve taught high school band for almost 30 years ad have found very few students tat can sound really dood on a mouthpiece the size of a 57 unless they are starting on Bass. Why would you want to have to work that hard. The 6 1/2 AL is a great all around mouthpiece. most of my students play on some variation of the 6 1/2 AL. I say variation because I`m in a city school high school and our budget is crap and all my Trombonists play on a mouthpiece from my personel collection.
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wwwShadow7

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« Reply #51 on: Apr 11, 2010, 10:36PM »

I`ve taught high school band for almost 30 years ad have found very few students tat can sound really dood on a mouthpiece the size of a 57 unless they are starting on Bass. Why would you want to have to work that hard. The 6 1/2 AL is a great all around mouthpiece. most of my students play on some variation of the 6 1/2 AL. I say variation because I`m in a city school high school and our budget is crap and all my Trombonists play on a mouthpiece from my personel collection.

For that first week, playing on what you're used to is great.  But if you try to play at the extremes the horn fights you.  If you go on to play it for more than just one gig, the benefits of having a mouthpiece that matches the horn it's to be used on makes you humble quick.  Recalling my HS summer job to buy a bicycle.  And having to revisit the bike shop several times since I intended to ride the bike home because the chain kept jumping off the sproket.  Seeing a guy turn a screw driver half a turn to fix it.  Taking it back several times to fine tune it.  And by the time it was near perfect I could have already been halfway home with the distance traveled.  Since then I always have some sort of screw driver in my pocket.  You don't need a screw driver to ride a bicycle, but if you're going to ride 40 miles to the beach in one sitting, it sure makes the trip a lot less stressful and conveinent if you actually needed a screw driver.  You don't need a bass trombone mouthpiece to play bass trombone, but it sure makes it a nicer ride on the long haul.
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #52 on: Apr 12, 2010, 05:50AM »

that  might  been  a  deraileur   dropping the  chain off   //going to  high  gear  ???????????????



For that first week, playing on what you're used to is great.  But if you try to play at the extremes the horn fights you.  If you go on to play it for more than just one gig, the benefits of having a mouthpiece that matches the horn it's to be used on makes you humble quick.  Recalling my HS summer job to buy a bicycle.  And having to revisit the bike shop several times since I intended to ride the bike home because the chain kept jumping off the sproket.  Seeing a guy turn a screw driver half a turn to fix it.  Taking it back several times to fine tune it.  And by the time it was near perfect I could have already been halfway home with the distance traveled.  Since then I always have some sort of screw driver in my pocket.  You don't need a screw driver to ride a bicycle, but if you're going to ride 40 miles to the beach in one sitting, it sure makes the trip a lot less stressful and conveinent if you actually needed a screw driver.  You don't need a bass trombone mouthpiece to play bass trombone, but it sure makes it a nicer ride on the long haul.
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« Reply #53 on: Apr 24, 2010, 04:54PM »

The Remington is not made any more although there seem to be an awful lot of them on Ebay. 



I may have missed it in the pages above, old thread, but I recently bought a new 5G Remington from an online MP "expediter". Not stamped though...Noticeably different from Bach 5G. Remington has very little bottom to cup, smoother taper to bore. Shank fits well in the '63 8H. The rim feels similar to the Bach.
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« Reply #54 on: Apr 24, 2010, 05:05PM »

I may have missed it in the pages above, old thread, but I recently bought a new 5G Remington from an online MP "expediter". Not stamped though...Noticeably different from Bach 5G. Remington has very little bottom to cup, smoother taper to bore. Shank fits well in the '63 8H. The rim feels similar to the Bach.

We talking about a Conn Remington mouthpiece or a Bach 5G-R (I have one).  The 5G-R is supposed to be a conventional 5G with the special "Remington" taper used in older Conn trombones.  It also has a Bach-shaped blank.
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Bruce Guttman
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boyking
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« Reply #55 on: Apr 24, 2010, 05:24PM »

I get it. Can we not just do a cross section on every mouthpiece ever made and get it over with! Scan it..mill it. To order.
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Two seasons-Rapides Parish Symphony 3'rd chair
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BGuttman
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« Reply #56 on: Apr 24, 2010, 05:33PM »

Easy does it.  Why so testy?  You called it a 5G Remington, but I wasn't sure if you meant a "real" Remington or this Bach mouthpiece sold as an alternative that fits the older Conn large bore trombones.

Either way, if it works for you then it's good.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #57 on: Apr 24, 2010, 05:53PM »

Truly sorry. Not a testy bone in my body. Way out of my league>
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Two seasons-Rapides Parish Symphony 3'rd chair
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« Reply #58 on: Jul 25, 2010, 11:28AM »

Just get some chops w/exercises from everyone from old school to new school, you would be surprised on how little a mouth effects the trombone technique.  Lindberg, Alessi, Doug Wright, Jim Miller, Ralph Sauer, Denis Wick,any prominent jazz musician; all those guys could play anything they want and still sound "sick."
What a mouthpiece does is effect is frontal projection.  Extreme example, Schilke 60 to 47.  or 0g to a 12 C.  The audience is going to hear different sounds w/those mouth pieces.  Its all about what kind of sound you want.  Find the sound you band director wants or you desire then you search will be very easy, perspectively speaking.
Look up something called Sympathetic Vibrations, they change w/material, and depth of mouthpiece.  I'm not even gonna start w/the horn!  Best of Luck.
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Ruud.Aelse

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« Reply #59 on: Sep 27, 2010, 10:56AM »

I've been playing for years in a New Orleans Brass Band. Over the years I have had several mouthpieces Dennis Wick Heritage, Yamaha, Courtois, FAXX, Christian Lindberg and all in different versions. Thanks to this forum, I came in contact with Doug Elliott. He finally advised me a rim 100 ST / B cup / shank B2. This is the best mouthpiece I've ever had! Super advice and excellent service!
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