Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1087144 Posts in 71990 Topics- by 19239 Members - Latest Member: Hackercraft792
Jump to:  
Poll
Question: Can anyone play the trombone as well as Frank Rosolino?
yes - 85 (69.1%)
yes, but only because Frank Rosolino is no longer with us - 12 (9.8%)
no - 26 (21.1%)
Total Voters: 117

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 9  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Rosolino vs the rest  (Read 41865 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
sabutin

*
Offline Offline

Location: NYC
Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 5423
"A professional freelance NYC lower brass player."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: Nov 01, 2007, 07:08AM »


---snip---

I'm interested in the choices musicians make; to me, it seems that Rosolino was really able to "create his own shot," as they say in the hoops world.

Really, Josh...we do not HAVE any choices. We are who we are. Sperm meets egg; genes do their work et...voilá!!!

Rosolino.

Josh.

Sam.

And everybody else.

It is true that Frank was a total original. He had no choice in the matter. But "originality" is not necessarily a recommendation. It is of course necessary to be "original" to be a great artist, but originality in and of itself does not MAKE an artist great.

More is needed.

Frank? He was missing something important. Certainly not sheer musical talent. The OTHER thing. Whatever the hell that is. Like the judge said about pornography."I cannot define it,...but I know it when I see it."

Yup.

No blame, no foul. Just the facts of the matter in my view.

Do not try this at home.

Results may vary.

Later...

S.
Logged

Visit <http://samburtis.com/>. Lots of information on that site in the form of articles plus a link to my method book "Time, Balance & Connections-A Universal Theory Of Brass Relativity" which includes several chapters of the book.
BillyB

*
Offline Offline

Location: Huntsville, AL
Joined: May 6, 2004
Posts: 1220

View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: Nov 01, 2007, 07:13AM »

Just in my own humble opinion, I find his playing, at least on that clip, to be completely lacking in "soul" or "feeling", and also monumentally tedious. What IS the point of playing like that?

I appreciate the extreme level of technical proficiency and grasp of harmony he had, and enjoy listening to his solos... watching him play in the above clip struck me as odd, and I hadn't really thought about why until you said this, Mama- his eyes look blank. I can't tell if he's extremely focused, or extremely bored. I often close my eyes when I solo, so I can focus on my own 'inner soundtrack', if you will, and that may be what he's doing, just with his eyes open.
Logged

=Billy Bargetzi

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means..."
sabutin

*
Offline Offline

Location: NYC
Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 5423
"A professional freelance NYC lower brass player."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: Nov 01, 2007, 07:16AM »

---snip---

Oh, and let me add this: Damn you, Sabutin! I had never even thought about those turns, and now I hear them in every Rosolino solo---snip---

Sorry...

They have bothered me since I was 15.

Really.

Quote
and I agree with you--they're quite "trombonish" and they certainly don't add to the musical statement of the solo. I would add, though, that turns and any other way of manipulating partials (like playing against the grain) are one of the best ways to get fast articulations out of a trombone, and Rosolino seems to have been one of the pioneers of this technique. You'd know better than I. I'm wondering if the turns were "trombonish" before Rosolino made them so.

Bill Harris

Jimmy Harrison

Dicky Wells

Jack Jenney

Lawrence Brown

Middle-era Trummy Young

Lots of others.

They all used them.

Rosolino just took it to a whole 'nother level.

Quote
There will come a time when multiphonics are seen as a low brass cliche, but at least for right now, they seem to stretch the horizons of the instrument. Only time will tell.

Actually...I doubt that they will EVER become truly popular on trombone.

Too ugly.

Too limiting, too.

Now on tuba...!!!

THERE'S where they actually sound good.

S.
Logged

Visit <http://samburtis.com/>. Lots of information on that site in the form of articles plus a link to my method book "Time, Balance & Connections-A Universal Theory Of Brass Relativity" which includes several chapters of the book.
Chris Fidler

*
Offline Offline

Location: UK
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 2256

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: Nov 01, 2007, 11:28AM »

"Here's that Rainy Day"
Bobby Knights Great American Trombone Company.

NUFF SAID........ Clever
Logged

The wise musicians are those who play what they can master.
Duke Ellington
RedHotMama
She Who Must Be Obeyed

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Luton, UK
Joined: Aug 22, 2000
Posts: 32931
"Forum Administrator"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: Nov 01, 2007, 11:41AM »

"Here's that Rainy Day"
Bobby Knights Great American Trombone Company.

NUFF SAID........ Clever

I'm not sure that's nuff said, because I, for one, don't know what you're talking about.

However, that blank face of Rosolino really made me feel chilly. That was not a man enjoying what he was playing. IMO.
Logged

Christine (red hot - that's what!)
christine.woodcock@gmail.com
In vodka veritas
Piano man
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 9956

View Profile
« Reply #25 on: Nov 01, 2007, 11:48AM »

I'm not sure about the blank stare thing. He sounds like he's enjoying himself. I know a lot of people who sort of space out when they improvise, including myself. A lot of guitarists or piano players inadvertently stare, or sing along, or make faces while they play.

He had the blank stare while he was singing, too. Maybe it's just his 'cool' persona.
Logged

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." --Mark Twain
BoneCall

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 8, 2002
Posts: 1585

View Profile
« Reply #26 on: Nov 01, 2007, 11:52AM »

Quote
I admire people who can project their personality through an instrument.

Me too. But unfortunately in Mr Rosolino's case IMHO the personality projected was rather one dimensional and a bit manic.

Not that he wasn't one hell of a trombone player.
Logged
Chris Fidler

*
Offline Offline

Location: UK
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 2256

View Profile
« Reply #27 on: Nov 01, 2007, 01:47PM »

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions of course!!!

However it is MY opinion that anyone not finding musicality, soul, happiness, joy, sadness, music and chops in Franks playing have either........
 a) Not heard much or......
 b) Are "no-listening MF's."
Logged

The wise musicians are those who play what they can master.
Duke Ellington
zemry

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Mansfield, Louisiana
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5581
"Steve Turre and myself in the French Quarter"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: Nov 01, 2007, 02:45PM »

I do hear the soul in Frank's playing. On a pop song done by Quincy Jones, Everything Must Change, Frank plays a short but one of the most soulful trombone solos that I have ever heard!

I also see no need for us to prohibit a discussion of the circumstances of Frank's death....just one black man man's opinion and that still ain't worth a **** in today's world!
Logged

There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore.........J.J. Johnson

Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr.
The Sheriff
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 878

View Profile
« Reply #29 on: Nov 01, 2007, 02:59PM »

No way of knowing, but, the so called blank face is probably concentration. Everyone is different when it comes to that sort of thing. Eyes closed, not closed, who gives a rat's puh-too-tee.

Opinions yes, but lacking in soul or feeling?  Wow! What's the point in playing like that? Wow again. Howse 'bout the fact that he swings his ever lovin' bee-hind off for starters.

My opinion only, but if you aint moved by Frank's playing then perhaps you're dead, aint listenin', stubborn, square, or perhaps do not have enough of a musical mind/heart to grasp it.

Yes, there are many trombone players on the scene today that have taken quantum leaps with their "****", but very few if any of 'em are SWINGIN"! And in my book if it aint swingin' it aint happenin'!

I could easily be saying the above about any number of great players from the past, btw.
Logged

Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
The Sheriff
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 878

View Profile
« Reply #30 on: Nov 01, 2007, 03:03PM »

Zemry, I'm a bit confused by your last statement. Cuz your opinion matters to me.
Logged

Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
zemry

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Mansfield, Louisiana
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5581
"Steve Turre and myself in the French Quarter"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: Nov 01, 2007, 03:31PM »

Zemry, I'm a bit confused by your last statement. Cuz your opinion matters to me.

Just a bad day and lettin it out! I'm okay now! :D
Logged

There won't come a time when you won't have to practice anymore.........J.J. Johnson

Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr.
josh roseman

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 1554

View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: Nov 01, 2007, 04:16PM »

If we're gonna start judging guys by how they look while they're playing (on a television set, no less)it's gonna be a looong conversation.
Rosolino's playing, "look", feel, choice of notes all convey a sense of controlled mastery and a huge store of humor and energy, IMO.   
He's capable of making me crack up and I generally feel better after listening to him.
he swings pretty hard, in my book..

Does his playing convey his dark side?  Absolutely, and why not?
It's art, it's supposed to convey your polar extremes, we all have them. 
Honest Jazz is deep music.   For me, real playing is all about dealing with the Shadows- nether zones and ideals. 
We could talk about Billie Holiday's dark side, Miles's, Coltrane's, Beethoven's. 
I know I'm not in a position to judge- I have no idea what choices might unfold in someone else's day-to-day.  people are brutal.  I'm just glad there are a few areas in life where you can express what's really happening.

Logged

The Sheriff
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 878

View Profile
« Reply #33 on: Nov 01, 2007, 04:21PM »

Amen to that, Josh.
Logged

Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
evan51
Guardian of the Sacred Nebulizer

*
Offline Offline

Location: CA Tent City
Joined: Feb 8, 2001
Posts: 22145

View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: Nov 01, 2007, 04:26PM »

If we're gonna start judging guys by how they look while they're playing (on a television set, no less)it's gonna be a looong conversation.
Rosolino's playing, "look", feel, choice of notes all convey a sense of controlled mastery and a huge store of humor and energy, IMO. 

Yes, indeed. I hope how we look when playing doesn't become a standard.  Don't know
We aren't opera singers. I've seen all kinds of looks out of 'bonists, but can't relate them to what comes out of the horn.
Logged

One life---a little gleam of time between two Eternities.---Thomas Carlyle
BarryLee

*
Offline Offline

Location: Positively 4th St., Dinkytown, USA
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
Posts: 1157

View Profile
« Reply #35 on: Nov 01, 2007, 04:56PM »

Frank Rosolino sounded like Frank Rosolino. He's instantly recognizable, and that's why he lives now with Bird and Trane and Ben and all the other angelheaded hipsters for us.

We want to sound like ourselves, don't we? Otherwise, what's the point, really?

Ros did that, and that's what I hear when I listen to him.

It's not the notes he played; it's the music he made.

He gave me the shortest lesson I ever had, a long time ago, obviously. All he really said was this:

"You already know how to play; just play!"

Just play.



Logged

Did you do your long tones today?
Piano man
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 9956

View Profile
« Reply #36 on: Nov 01, 2007, 09:06PM »

A lot of what Billie Holiday and Louis Armstrong did could be viewed as mannerisms and licks, and probably rightly so. What the hell, same with Art Tatum and Jimmy Smith and Jimi Hendrix. For all I know, they might have also had a blank stare part of the time.

We're on the verge of consigning trombonists to a little corner where playing joyfully doesn't merit any respect.
Logged

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." --Mark Twain
RedHotMama
She Who Must Be Obeyed

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Luton, UK
Joined: Aug 22, 2000
Posts: 32931
"Forum Administrator"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: Nov 02, 2007, 01:56AM »

I didn't mean to start a side-issue about looks! One of the best trumpet players I know plays with his eyes partially closed and turned up, so that all you can see are the whites. Creepy, but it doesn't stop me enjoying the music he produces.

I've listened to Rosolino with my eyes closed, but, despite being able to appreciate his mastery of the instrument, as Sam said there seems to be something lacking. I called it "soul and feeling", but maybe I was incorrect in my phraseology. What he produces just doesn't float my particular boat. Sorry.
Logged

Christine (red hot - that's what!)
christine.woodcock@gmail.com
In vodka veritas
BoneCall

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 8, 2002
Posts: 1585

View Profile
« Reply #38 on: Nov 02, 2007, 04:34AM »

Quote
I also see no need for us to prohibit a discussion of the circumstances of Frank's death

Indeed.

The sum total of an artists work is absolutely influenced by how he lived his life. 

You can't separate the man from his music.

They're one and the same.
Logged
Euphanasia

*
Offline Offline

Location: Moses Lake, WA
Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 5911

View Profile
« Reply #39 on: Nov 02, 2007, 06:48AM »


The sum total of an artists work is absolutely influenced by how he lived his life. 


Yes. Not how he ended his life, but how he lived his life. I don't hear airplane crashes in Lynyrd Skynyrd, I don't read suicide in Hemingway, and I don't hear evidence of Rosolino's demise in his music. Art is not a person's inner demons vomited up for our consumption. For many artists, the art produced is a negation of those personal demons rather than an indulgence of them. What I hear in Rosolino's music is phenomenal control and precision. It's anything but out of control.

If your theory connecting the sound of a person's improvisation with their mental state is correct, then we should start a program of "improvisation profiling" wherein we decide whether a person's solos show them to be a danger to society. John Popper should be put away for the rest of his life. He collects guns, and he produces some of the most manic-sounding harmonica solos I've ever heard. Isn't it a foregone conclusion that he's going to kill somebody?

Do you really think you can listen to any living artist's solos and decide what's wrong with their brains based on their musical statements? I'm sorry, but that sounds like a bunch of crap to me.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 9  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: