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Author Topic: Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone  (Read 29361 times)
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Burgerbob

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« Reply #40 on: Apr 29, 2008, 12:04PM »

Shires Bonezilla slide, .578/.590, square crook, straight gooseneck, 10 1/2in bell.

And a Schilke 61.

A good beginner horn.

I'm all for my 3B slide and Conn 5G bell, so a 3B or a 6H.
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Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50B, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 1.25
Conn 6H, King 7MD
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
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« Reply #41 on: Apr 30, 2008, 08:18AM »

Shires Bonezilla slide, .578/.590, square crook, straight gooseneck, 10 1/2in bell.

That's huge...!  Never heard of a bore as big as that
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nickrex37
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« Reply #42 on: Jul 29, 2008, 01:10PM »

Sorry I havent replied to this topic in awhile. I have read a lot of what everyone has said. A lot of people have said the King 3B is a good choice, but isnt that more of a nonlead horn. And i guess extreme upper register isnt completely important. I just want anything up to at least a High D to not sound strained. I want a horn thats pretty free blowing, and i really love the idea (never tried on) of a lightweight slide. I know a trombone is an investment you should cherish and not be unhappy with a year down the road. Old horns do have quite an allure to them, but i guess i dont want to be playing top dollar for an old whatever. It would scare me a little to play something twice my age honestly. I dont know if this helps but i really love my conn 88ho, i wish i could find that in miniature form with a lightweight slide.
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Dantheman

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« Reply #43 on: Jul 29, 2008, 02:15PM »

Conn 6H with acme lightweight slide...?
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jmoore88
« Reply #44 on: Jul 29, 2008, 03:14PM »

Don't feel like you need a specific (in this case small) horn to play high notes. Maybe if your job is playing really high for a couple hours a night it'd be a little more comfortable... but plenty of players from many different backgrounds have shown if you practice a lot a D doesn't have to sound strained.
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nickrex37
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« Reply #45 on: Jul 31, 2008, 12:25AM »

well my D doesnt really strained at the moment i just want a horn that can definitely make the note and above sound good. i dont really have a problem hitting an F most of the time and i can squeak out up to a really high C. not that squeaks are really much but yeah. ive done a fair amount of research and for lead horns it seems like a logical choice would be a King 2B are things along those lines. I mean there is the Bach 16 LT and the Getzen and Edwards models. There is a lot to choose from. I guess thats a good thing, but where would i be able to try a large range of horns?
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colin

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« Reply #46 on: Jul 31, 2008, 01:24AM »

Don't feel like you need a specific (in this case small) horn to play high notes. Maybe if your job is playing really high for a couple hours a night it'd be a little more comfortable... but plenty of players from many different backgrounds have shown if you practice a lot a D doesn't have to sound strained.

Better still though if you find a horn which allows you to play top D unstrained without practising.
Lets be honest here. Yes obviously practice helps. I can play better for longer when I practice but it IS easier to play lots of top D's (and for longer) on my Yamaha 697Z than my Conn 88H. The Z is also much brighter, lighter and cuts through an electric rhythm section more easily.
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Piano man
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« Reply #47 on: Jul 31, 2008, 02:07AM »

It would scare me a little to play something twice my age honestly.

Does that mean that when you're twice as old you won't be scared to play twice as old of a horn?

Go with the sound and fix the slide.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #48 on: Jul 31, 2008, 12:41PM »

...it seems like a logical choice would be a King 2B are things along those lines. I mean there is the Bach 16 LT and the Getzen and Edwards models. There is a lot to choose from. I guess thats a good thing, but where would i be able to try a large range of horns?

I know it's a few hours away, but Dillon Music in New Jersey might be the biggest assortment available.  Or you can see what Hickey's has in stock (only about half as far) or maybe Volkwein's in Pittsburgh?

While we say you should try a bunch of different horns, don't get so diligent that you spend the rest of your life testing and never choose something because "ooh, the next one could be better".  It might, but not by much.  If you get something and start practicing you will adapt to the horn and make it your own (unless you hate the thing, in which case you shouldn't have bought it).

Also, I would tend to buy a slightly larger horn for jazz unless you KNOW you will only be playing 1st.  You will get gigs where you might have to play any part and a .500" or .508" horn will be a little better in the lower parts.  If you only will play 1st Trombone, you may not get a lot of gigs... :/
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #49 on: Jul 31, 2008, 04:01PM »

well my D doesnt really strained at the moment i just want a horn that can definitely make the note and above sound good. i dont really have a problem hitting an F most of the time and i can squeak out up to a really high C. not that squeaks are really much but yeah. ive done a fair amount of research and for lead horns it seems like a logical choice would be a King 2B are things along those lines. I mean there is the Bach 16 LT and the Getzen and Edwards models. There is a lot to choose from. I guess thats a good thing, but where would i be able to try a large range of horns?
I don't know how long you can wait for a horn, but the Eastern Trombone Workshop would be a GREAT place to try a bunch of different horns back to back.  It's kind of a long trip from PA, but you may end up with a horn you're more satisfied with in the long run, and get it for a great price.  Plus you'd get to see all of the rest of the awesome events taking place.  It's a long wait and a long trip, but it could be a good idea...
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« Reply #50 on: Jul 31, 2008, 10:55PM »

yeah thats a good point that i shouldnt be searching for the "holy grail" of trombones. i may never find it. it seems like lot of these places are a decent way away from me so maybe i will plan a trip. volkweins in pittsburgh  sadly does not have too many instruments (from what i have seen). and BGuttman's response about getting a bigger horn is a pretty good idea. i play 1st in college because i am the only major and some majors that play different instruments play 2nd, 3rd etc. I dont insist on playing first, i guess i was just looking at it from the perspective of prob another 3 years of college on 1st. I play 2nd all through high school so i dont have a fit if i dont play lead, doesnt really bother me. Maybe i should consider a King 3B? I still play Fs on my conn 88ho so a .508 shouldnt be too much of a problem. And from what I have researched the trombonist who played with maynard mostly used 3Bs to blend in and i imagine thats true with most big bands. In case if I do combo work a 3B would most likely blend better.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #51 on: Aug 01, 2008, 07:35AM »

There is a universe of trombones out there that will do what you want and sound good doing it.

Find a couple and try them and select what works best for you.

The King 3B and its Bach cousin the 16M have been used as commercial and jazz horns for at least a half a century and are still going strong.  The Yamaha 691 is also in this size.

Or the slightly smaller horns work well also.  Lots of guys like Conn 6H.  Want a newer version?  Try a Kanstul 1606 (which is a Kanstul copy of a Williams copy of the 6H; both improved along the way).

Contact DJ Kennedy and see what he has stashed in his house(s).

Good luck.
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Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
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jmoore88
« Reply #52 on: Aug 01, 2008, 04:45PM »

Better still though if you find a horn which allows you to play top D unstrained without practising.
Lets be honest here. Yes obviously practice helps. I can play better for longer when I practice but it IS easier to play lots of top D's (and for longer) on my Yamaha 697Z than my Conn 88H. The Z is also much brighter, lighter and cuts through an electric rhythm section more easily.

Of course, I'm just suggesting to be open to horns that are a little bigger as well as the smaller ones. I have an old, tiny, King Tempo that I can play high notes on just fine, but it feels awful for me otherwise because of the way I play and the drastic difference between that and the large bore Shires that I spend most of my time playing. (and as BGuttman pointed out, a slightly larger horn is could be more logical for those of us who aren't necessarily going to only play lead in a big band for the rest of our lives) I'm not prejudice against playing small horns or anything, I just think that in some cases it may not be the best solution.

nickrex, If you can make it to the ETW it's an awesome place to try out a variety of setups and hear really awesome musicians. It's probably a 6 or so hour drive... if you can arrange it, definitely check it out!
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djlovell
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« Reply #53 on: Oct 06, 2017, 03:51PM »

There's SO many good horns out there.

Nobody's mentioned a 24H. It's a straight .485, blows like a .508 if you want to give it a little time on the low end.

Really extraordinary... but everybody gives you the fish-eye if you bring it in into some bigband situation.

****'em... The horn is unbelievable! Try one....



That is a WONDERFUL horn. I got a 1928 (first year) model for about $250 on eBay. It is gorgeous after getting a couple dents out, and the slide is great for the age. At University jazz ensemble, people are mind blown at how tiny it is, then astonished that it can scream and pop out a pedal f with equal finesse and the same velvety full tone...on a 12c. I have no issue on lead blending with my setion, who all play .547 or bass. People get too hung up on horn characteristics and model. Size/material/weight don't matter as much as the horn itself. There's my 3 cents.
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gregs70

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« Reply #54 on: Oct 06, 2017, 07:07PM »

Wow,did a nine year old thread just get responded to?
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« Reply #55 on: Oct 09, 2017, 09:51AM »

 
================GIANT STEPS ========
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« Reply #56 on: Oct 10, 2017, 07:40PM »

Old post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver  24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.
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davdud101
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« Reply #57 on: Oct 10, 2017, 07:50PM »

Old post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver  24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.

How does it play in comparison to, for example, a Yamaha 354 in your opinion?
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« Reply #58 on: Oct 16, 2017, 06:17AM »

HEAVY  SUPER SOLID  ---VERY COMFORTABLE===DELUXE  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  and beautiful  !!!!!!!! Pant Pant Pant Pant


Old post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver  24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.
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« Reply #59 on: Oct 16, 2017, 06:52AM »

How does it play in comparison to, for example, a Yamaha 354 in your opinion?
I've never played a Yamaha 354, so I don't know. I'd expect the 24h to be a bit heavier, though. It's a much older horn, I think the slide is narrower on the 24h, and the bell smaller, so the articulations might be faster. From what I read the 354 is nothing to sneeze at. I have a 651 which is nice, but somewhat... one dimensional in comparison. I don't mean that to disparage the Yamaha. I really like the horn. It has a much simpler sound. That has been true of most of the Yamahas I've played. Even with a red bell, the 651 is still kind of one dimensional. I had a 691 as well that was similar, but bigger bore with a yellow bell. Played great, sounded great, but the sound was different. Not as warm as a Conn. Maybe a little brighter, definitely not as much going on within the sound.
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