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Author Topic: Martin Trombone  (Read 6832 times)
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Lockr
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« on: Aug 31, 2008, 07:23AM »

Your thoughts on the Martin trombones, esp. the Committee model?

Also, what is the RMC model, is it a pro. horn?

Thanks.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 31, 2008, 11:55AM »

Not sure what RMC is, but I played a Committee for a year or so.  It had a nice "big band lead" sound.  But since I have a King 2B Silvertone I didn't need two of the same type of horn.  So I sold it.  If I didn't have the King 2B, I'd probably still be playing it.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 31, 2008, 12:55PM »

RMC is "Roundtable of Music Craftsmen."
They apparently replaced the "Committee." This was in '60 and '61--right before Martin declared bankruptcy. I don't know anything about their quality, but Martin did seem to be doing some rather cheesy marketing at the time--notably the "Music Man" line of horns which were marketed in conjunction with the film version of "The Music Man." They've always looked rather crappy to me,  but I'm sure Professor Harold Hill would have approved.

One possible explanation for the "RMC" is that the idea of the Martin "Committee" was being sabotaged by one member (Schilke) claiming that he alone was the committee and that no one else's input mattered.

I had a Handcraft Committee for awhile. Nice horn,  but as Bruce points out, they have a specific niche. Another one of those "That's a big sound for a smallbore horn" kind of trombones.
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jaws241
« Reply #3 on: Aug 31, 2008, 01:46PM »

I thought RMC was just a label they put on it in the later actual martin years

I think there are some RMC Indianas out there..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Martin-RMC-Indiana-Cornet-1960s-Great-Player_W0QQitemZ260278145843QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41396QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Lockr
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 31, 2008, 02:48PM »

Thanks fellows.  I have no experience with a Martin.  There are a couple on ebay right now I have bid on.
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 31, 2008, 04:06PM »

The committee's are nice horns.  They were made in various bore and bell sizes.  The .465 and .485 were the most popular.  They also made a .500 bore which is fairly rare but occasionally come up on ebay. The .485 is a very nice playing horn and is good for lead and jazz combos.  the .465 is a nice playing horn but is too small for my taste. The .465 has a 6-7/8" bell and the .485 has a larger bell, maybe 7.5" (I don't have one to measure).  There are no markings (that I am aware of) on the horn to indicate the difference between the different bore sizes.

The Imperial is also a nice horn.  The Handcraft Imperial and the later Imperials are completely different horns.  The Handcraft is a dual bore similar the the King 2B while the later Imperials are .465 bores, still a nice playing horn but on the small side.  I just bought both models and was quite surprised a the differences. 


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Sporto

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« Reply #6 on: Sep 06, 2008, 01:11PM »

a few things I can add
the Handcraft Imperial was a .500 - .525 dual bore, nickel silver outer slides
you can tell a .500 Committee by a small 3 over the serial number. I've seen 2 and both had a 7 1/2 inch bell
the .485 Committee had a 7" bell 

 
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 06, 2008, 01:41PM »

There are some details about RMC years on the Contempora Corner:

http://www.contemporacorner.com/1961-1963.html

As Euphanasia correctly pointed out RMC was the "Roundtable of Music Craftsmen" and conveniently also could stand for Richard Music Corporation, the owner in the early 60s, as needed. Martin, Blessing, and other instrument manufacturers were part of the RMC for a while.
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 06, 2008, 05:12PM »

Sporto,

Thanks for the info on the Imperial Handcraft bore sizes.  I recheck mine and you are right on. 

Has anyone tried a .500 committee? 
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Sporto

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« Reply #9 on: Sep 06, 2008, 09:38PM »

I've got a .500 Committee that needs new inners.   It's got that same dark, beefy sound as the .485, just a little less bright at volume over say ff
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 07, 2008, 08:12PM »

Hello Lockr,
I own a 1947 Martin Committe .485 bore. My first ebay purchase a few years ago from what has turned out to be one the most reputable ebay'ers I have ever known.  This foray into the Ebay world started a several year session in which I have now aquired almost 20 vintage trombones.  Yes, I was and still am addicted to vintage horns.  My Commitee was my first Ebay purchase.  I wish I would have been smart enough to know when I had a great, not good, thing when I got to play this horn when I got it.  It would have saved me a lot of other purchases that I still, as a collector do not  regret.  I do have to say that this Martin Commitee is as good or better than just about all of my other small bore horns in my collection. This includes an older King Tempo, LA Olds Super, Holton 65, '54 Conn 4H, King 606 modified solo bone, Getzen Super Deluxe copper bell, an old 1946 Reynolds 3-b, and a 1993 King 3-b 100th Anniv. Silver Sonic.  If you get a chance at one of these vintage Martin horns take it and I do think you will not be disappointed.  With all of these fine horns at my disposal, I still find it hard not to go to my Commitee if I csn get away with it!
Salsabone
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Sporto

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« Reply #11 on: Sep 07, 2008, 08:36PM »

salsabone,
you sound like me with the E-bay quest for the great small bore tenor.    And I came to the same conclusion - my '48 Committee .485 is the best all around.   That's it in the picture.
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 13, 2008, 05:29PM »

I have a '47 .485 Martin Committee as well and I love it. I found it a little hard to get the sound to project in a big band setting, however I love the feel of it and it's great for a smaller ensemble. Did anyone else have a projection issue with it? It might just be me. I just got a new Courtois .500 430T for big band, but I'll always hold on to the Martin  :)
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Shires Small Bore Trombone - T08NLW slide, S2GM8 bell
Shires Bass Trombone - B62-78 slide, BII7G bell, inline axial flow valves
'47 Martin Committee Model Trombone
Yamaha YEP-642S Euphonium
salsabone
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 14, 2008, 12:49AM »

Sporto, Dacheese,
I will try to give you my opinion on an old Committee projection after my gig tomorrow.  I will be playing on the top of a float in a parade, for about a mile in our annual Hispanic day festival in a 4 bone Salsa band playing lead.  I am planning on playing my Committee.  I will let you know how things went a little later.

Without trying to hyjack the thread would any of you know anything about another Martin vintage horn that I now own.  It has the same Matin logo on the bell with the word "Deluxe" just under "The Martin" part.  The bell is bigger than my Committee model and it seem to made of nicle silver.  I think the bore size maybe a little bigger, like around a .500 bore or so.  Without a doubt, this is one of the loudest horns I own.  Any info or insight on this horn would be appreciated.

Salsabone
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 14, 2008, 01:39AM »

RMC was just the brand on the early sixties horns. The 'roundtable' wasn't a design committee but just the new owner of Martin. I think it was a compendium of several smaller companies.

The RMC era horns are worth less money and are generally considered to be lesser in quality, but the best examples are still good, so it's maybe analogous to Abilene Conns. I had an RMC Martin Committee trumpet that I bought for eighty bucks at an antique shop (it appeared to have been sat on). I had it straightened out and it seemed to play well. I ended up selling it to a trumpet player and he liked it.

I believe this one had 'DeLuxe' on it also, maybe on the mouthpiece receiver. It had nickel trim and a first valve trigger that weren't on the classic Committees. Martin Committee trumpets are more sought-after than the trombones because of the number of jazz greats who played them at one time or another.

I believe horns labeled "The Martin" are older pro horns. I bet 'Deluxe' is a trim level. "The Martin" saxes are well respected but relatively rare, sort of like Bueschers.
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 16, 2008, 07:38PM »

As it turns out Salsabone played his 2B Tempo on lead in the parade and then we switched. I had not played a big band gig earlier in the day like Kevin had. I played his incredible '47 Martin . It is so superb that words fail me. Another fellow showed up to sub on third and He played the Martin Deluxe and enjoyed it probably more than his Yamaha 354. After the parade I was nearly equally impressed with the horn that Kevin started on all those years ago-the 2B Tempo. A straight .481 bore with a sensational slide.I'll play the gig next year if asked but I will be sure to do more than 5 days of mouthpiece buzzing next time around. By the end all the chops I had were the result of all the curls I've done over the years in the gym. :)I think the only reason I hit every high B-flat was the .485 bore on the Committee. The horn is a "sleeper". Absolutely one of the 2 or three best I have Ever played. On our next Dillon excursion Kevin is going to bring it along for comparison purposes only.That way I'll know if that mint 28H is the one for me. If not I'll try to steal a Martin on E-Bay. If you can get one for anything remotely reasonable-Do It!
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« Reply #16 on: Apr 01, 2012, 10:50AM »

In 1961, Paul Richards, with little experience in the instrument industry, planned to ride the tail of the  "Music Man" boom  he expected would follow the movie's debut.  He purchased Martin, Reynolds, and Blessing and specifically their factories to build student horns in great numbers.   It's my belief that with television's ever increasing influence on kids, the wave wasn't all that big.   AFter my Grandad's departure from Martin's leadership in 1948, my Uncle Fritz Holtz (Fred Jr) became VP.   He was floor manager since joining his dad at Martin in 1935.   He was not impressed with the RMC plan.  Martin was never a production line company; experienced craftsmen each had a worktable and did what they did best, whether forming, machining, or polishing.  Martin took pride in their "handcraft" method.   Fritz decided to pack up and leave to concentrate on his case factory (Elkhart Wood Products or Elwopco)   The RMC plan sought quantity, and sadly, those opposing goals, and the retirement of many of their older and most talented craftsmen lead to the plug being pulled on Martin in only two years.
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« Reply #17 on: Apr 01, 2012, 02:49PM »

It's my belief that with television's ever increasing influence on kids, the wave wasn't all that big.
I can't imagine it being of any great duration, either. A year, maybe two at the most. Other factors (including the rise of rock and roll) also contributed to a decrease in demand for wind instruments of all types and grades.

Chris, thank you for sharing this information. I would encourage you to consider setting up your own website dedicated to Martin and your family's involvement with the company; something along the lines of hnwhite.com (though it doesn't have to be as fancy).
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« Reply #18 on: Apr 01, 2012, 03:29PM »

Just noticed this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTAGE-MARTIN-COMMITTEE-TROMBONE-WITH-CASE-MARTIN-MOUTHPIECE-/400288792909?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item5d3312414d

Not mine. 

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