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Author Topic: Earl Williams Trombone  (Read 368463 times)
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The Sheriff
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« Reply #1720 on: Jan 12, 2017, 07:45AM »

Can you enlighten my, how that key is working? It doesn't look like a common trombone water key, and that's spyrale spring...what's up with that?

It's a curved rod within a curved tube. Look closely at where the spring ends and you will see the curved inner rod. Press the knurled knob at the spring end (barely visible in pic) and it lifts the cork up and away from the nipple allowing the water to drain.
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« Reply #1721 on: Apr 02, 2017, 09:08AM »

Sorry Troy... If it doesn't work out between us I'll call you first.
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« Reply #1722 on: Apr 05, 2017, 09:48AM »

Thanks Slip, it's a blower!

This is the first with king style crook i've played... i dig it!

Unwrapping it was a pain - he shipped it well... and I was trying to not drop anything or screw anything up.

Serial number 30XX, single radius crook, burbank on grip, one line of info on bell EARL WILLIAMS - from what little I know about these horns, pretty sure it's a Bob - I'm a king guy and that's what what I want.

First impression: it's a beast, takes what I give it. I'm playing it in a rehearsal tonight and on a big band gig this weekend. Update to follow.
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SilverBone
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« Reply #1723 on: Apr 06, 2017, 12:47AM »

Serial number 30xx is definitely a Bob.  Enjoy it!
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« Reply #1724 on: Apr 06, 2017, 09:44AM »

Thanks Slip, it's a blower!

This is the first with king style crook i've played... i dig it!

Unwrapping it was a pain - he shipped it well... and I was trying to not drop anything or screw anything up.

Serial number 30XX, single radius crook, burbank on grip, one line of info on bell EARL WILLIAMS - from what little I know about these horns, pretty sure it's a Bob - I'm a king guy and that's what what I want.

First impression: it's a beast, takes what I give it. I'm playing it in a rehearsal tonight and on a big band gig this weekend. Update to follow.
Glad you like it, good sir.  I have a few other Williams around, too.  Great horns, obviously.  Sorry about the pain up unwrapping it...I wanted to keep shipping low and protection high!
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« Reply #1725 on: May 02, 2017, 02:06PM »

The patent for the curved brace (1782452) was granted on Nov. 25, 1930 (application date January 4, 1928). Earl had an earlier patent (1661147) for a TIS mechanism (filed Dec. 29, 1925, granted February 28, 1928) and a later one (2439997) for his water key design (filed Sep. 10, 1945, granted April 20, 1948).

As far as I know, the only time Earl used a "PATENT PENDING" stamp was for the curved brace. Once the patent was granted, he started stamping the patent number on the brace.


I have an Earl Williams with the "PAT APLD FOR" stamp next to the hand brace. So I can assume 1928-1930 date range?

Still trying to nail down the approximate vintage of this beauty, which I bought in Boise ID about 12 years ago.

I think this would be a model 2, and the serial number looks like "3XX".

I tried to post photos but was not able.

Ross

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JohnL
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« Reply #1726 on: May 02, 2017, 03:02PM »


I have an Earl Williams with the "PAT APLD FOR" stamp next to the hand brace. So I can assume 1928-1930 date range?
I'd guess no later than 1931. It might have taken a while to work through any stock of braces with the old markings.
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« Reply #1727 on: May 02, 2017, 03:02PM »

I was wondering about that number 1782452 (and no other markings).  My pre-4 Wallace-Williams has that number hand-stamped on the brace flange, and I've seen that on other horns too.  It must have been shortly after the patent was granted.
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« Reply #1728 on: May 04, 2017, 06:43PM »

I'd guess no later than 1931. It might have taken a while to work through any stock of braces with the old markings.

Thanks, John! I appreciate the feedback.

I took some photos of this horn this week.

Enjoy! #hornporn

































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« Reply #1729 on: May 11, 2017, 04:55AM »

JAY ARMSTROMG///// TENNESSEE  ///6  /// 8  LETTERS //IN NEW CONDITION
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« Reply #1730 on: May 12, 2017, 03:09PM »

I haven't read the whole thread here.
So excuse me if this has been addressed
I hear a lot about the Model 6 and 4
What is the opinion on the Model 8?
I see it listed as a 522  bore and another source lists it as a 525 bore.
I have  played a 6 before when I was 1st starting to double on Tenor moving away from just being a Bass Trombonist.
It was the only 500 bore I felt I could play. Still on the small side for me.
I passed up that one for $500.00 in 1988 0r so
Talk about the Ones that Got Away
THen I also go to play a Bass Model Maybe a 9 with a Conn Bass slide
Both horns were exceptional instruments
Does anyone have any bad experiences with any of the Williams,
most specifically the Burbank Era Horns?
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The Sheriff
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« Reply #1731 on: May 13, 2017, 06:16AM »

I haven't read the whole thread here.
So excuse me if this has been addressed
I hear a lot about the Model 6 and 4
What is the opinion on the Model 8?
I see it listed as a 522  bore and another source lists it as a 525 bore.
I have  played a 6 before when I was 1st starting to double on Tenor moving away from just being a Bass Trombonist.
It was the only 500 bore I felt I could play. Still on the small side for me.
I passed up that one for $500.00 in 1988 0r so
Talk about the Ones that Got Away
THen I also go to play a Bass Model Maybe a 9 with a Conn Bass slide
Both horns were exceptional instruments
Does anyone have any bad experiences with any of the Williams,
most specifically the Burbank Era Horns?

The 8 is great. Blows big for its size. They are closer to a .522 than a .525.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
Doug Elliott
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« Reply #1732 on: May 13, 2017, 08:26AM »

I think the actual size of an 8 is .520.  I've only played a few, but I think they feel odd.  The Sheriff's is older and a very nice playing horn, it's different from the others.
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« Reply #1733 on: May 15, 2017, 12:26PM »

Doug is correct it is a .520 bore horn. The model 9 is also the same bore.
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« Reply #1734 on: May 15, 2017, 08:01PM »

I am now a member of the Williams 8 club. I picked up one from Noah at the Brass Ark.
I just paid for it today
Made by Earl Himself stamped: Custom Made , Earl Williams,Burbank Calif
It also comes with a Piston Valve section and a case that fits all components.
SN 108X  I am told it use to Belong to Dave Wells of the Baja Marimba Band .I believe he also played with Kenton for a while. I will let you all know how it plays when I get it.
So Looking forward to it
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« Reply #1735 on: May 16, 2017, 08:01AM »

HOw about Earl's leadpipes?
Did he make his own? Did he use Burt Herrick pipes or someone elses?
Has anyone experimented with different leadpipes on the Williams Trombones?
I had played a Reynolds 30 L Contempora 520 bore horn in the past.I pulled the leadpipe and used an Edwards 3  525 pipe. I sanded it down to fit. It was a bit Brassy/Edgy. I cut it to 7.5 inches and it mellowed it out nicely. Still Free blowing with a good core to the sound
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« Reply #1736 on: May 16, 2017, 12:23PM »

Earl had his own lead pipes. But the first thing anyone did was go over to Bert's shop and have a Herrick pipe installed. Most of the LA scene kind of liked the #2 as it was called. I have experimented with many pipes in all of his horns and I always go back to my Herrick pipes. Earl thought his horns were perfect and was insulted when someone changed something. He strongly felt his pipes were better than Bert's. I wonder if this was a friendly rivalry or not.

Since you bought the 8 from Noah I'll let you know a little about the properties of them. First Earl designed the horn small up front and large on the back end. This was done for the LA studio crowd. Most of those guys played small equipment .500 bore horns. It was a huge blow to go from a 2B to a .547 so the 8's and 9's filled that gap. It gives the larger bore sound without the big blow. My horns are 1 an Earl and 2  a Bob horn. When Earl died, 4 July 1971, Bob restarted the serial numbers at 3000, and he also used round crooks and the hand slide crook is always nickel plated. My Earl is a very nice horn typical dark Williams sound and slots very well. Very responsive in the upper register. But the Bob horn does all these things a little better so that is the one I play on rare occasions. Both great horns but the Bob is a little bit better for me.

The funny thing I find is unless you can find an old Herrick pipe changing the pipe is a waste of time. I don't know why that is but it seems to be that way for me. I have a box of about 50 lead pipes and unless its a Herrick or Williams it does not seem to work right with Williams horns. I say that is what worked for me because lead pipes are so subjective to opinion. Be careful if you try and remove a soldered in pipe its probably and Earl pipe if soldered, Herrick pipes of that generation were push ins, and a few soldered in place. If you remove a soldered pipe thats 50 years old its usually destroyed in the process.

If you ever want to get rid of the Valve Section just let me know! Earl built a few of his own but most were a Conn 5G valve section.
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« Reply #1737 on: May 16, 2017, 02:48PM »

Thanks JNoxson. Quite a wealth of practical knowledge in that email.
I will play it for a while B4 I think of changing leadpipes.
Did Burt Herrick make a leadpipe that would fit the Williams 8 bore?
I have had several pipes removed  from 50 years and even older  horns.
It is kind of the Luck of the draw. A 1929 Conn 78H destroyed. THat trb was never the same.
A 1930 Bach 35S. That pipe was horrible to begin with.    A shires 3 was a big improvement on it. A 1937 Conn 78H was successful but that SHires 3 did wonders for it also . I had to sand that one down too. Quite a few 1970's Holton Bass Trombones. A 60's Holton 169 Bass . I use to have Larry Minick  pull my leadpipes til he passed.  It was after he passed that I had issues with leadpipes not coming out intact.  I understand that Brad Close with the Brass Ark soaks them  for 2 weeks in penetrating oil B4 he tries to remove a vintage Trb leadpipe.
We will see when it arrives. Thanks again,John McKevitt
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« Reply #1738 on: May 25, 2017, 09:04PM »

Well the Williams 8 arrived the other day. It is worth every penny I paid for it. It plays Big and easy. It is a 520 bore. I tried to put my 522 bore Conn 78H pipe in the open end of the inner slide tube stocking.The tip barely fit.The Conn 5G valve section works nice and with the Williams bell section is not stuffy but has a nice bit of resistance. The handslide is in excellent condition with no wear. I couldn't be happier. I can't wait to get it "Out in the Wild" and see how it works on a gig. Best Wishes All, John McKevitt
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« Reply #1739 on: May 26, 2017, 03:12PM »

Hey John, before you go swapping out pipes, there is another less destructive route you can go -

Doug Elliot is pretty good at matching cups/backbores to instruments. Maybe give him a call - that way you don't chop up your baby if at all possible.
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