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Author Topic: Earl Williams Trombone  (Read 224908 times)
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #640 on: Jan 07, 2010, 10:23PM »

you  known  dick  drewitz//bjorn  4


Huh?  What?!!!  What 1946 4?!!!  Where?!!!   :-0
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Richard Tadaki

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« Reply #641 on: Jan 07, 2010, 11:08PM »

you  known  dick  drewitz//bjorn  4


No, I'm afraid I don't.  Does he have a 4 for sale?  I'm curious as to how much he wants for it, even though I probably can't afford it since I just bought two new trombones in the last couple of months. 
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« Reply #642 on: Jan 08, 2010, 06:37AM »

congrats   troy  //my  guess  is  its  probably  a  485  bore  /  most  popular  size at the  time
 cant tell if its 7   or  7 1/2  ???????????????????????????
   i had  number  76    which  was looking  like a  student horn  !!!!!!!!!
john  sent  me  a super  pea shooter   sub  485  bore
   an alto looks  big   in comparison  to that one
-------------------------------------------
copper  arrowhead   --very cool  --org  case  ----------------good  stuff -------
-------
actually  more  fancy  than  the   much  much  later   model  6 !!!!!!!
-----
the  1946    4  that  is surfing   now ------WOW WOW  WOW  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks DJ. I put the hammer down on it pretty quick.

Can't wait to get it in hand, and get more details about it - and more pics.

Talk about the garage sale find of the Century!

T.
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JohnL
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« Reply #643 on: Jan 08, 2010, 08:44AM »

I think I see a squeeze clamp on end of the oversleeve on the upper slide; hard to tell from these pictures.

Here's a thread about a similar horn:
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,45133.0.html
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #644 on: Jan 08, 2010, 09:33AM »

a  4  sold  for 4000  ////////////then  8000
save  your  nickles !!!!!!!!



No, I'm afraid I don't.  Does he have a 4 for sale?  I'm curious as to how much he wants for it, even though I probably can't afford it since I just bought two new trombones in the last couple of months. 
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Ronobone

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« Reply #645 on: Jan 08, 2010, 10:47AM »


 Good!
Nice thread!

I'm the owner of a #4 and a #6,
the #4 is in good shape, the #6 in fantastic shape, looks like it's made yesterday . . .
The #4 is my main axe, just love this horn, never played anything like it.
The #4 has sn 84* (I should have a look, don't know for sure)
The #6 . . . . . should get it out of the basement . . .  :(
Therefore I'm thinking of selling the #6, this horn is just to good not to be played . . . .

==============

I remember a Williams Bass trumpet sold on eBay a few years ago, (now that is something else!)
anybody information on that one?

Thanks!




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Richard Tadaki

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« Reply #646 on: Jan 08, 2010, 03:30PM »

a  4  sold  for 4000  ////////////then  8000
save  your  nickles !!!!!!!!


Do you mean $8000.00?!!!!  Holy smokes!!!!  I guess I'll pass.  I'll just play my 6.


I'm the owner of a #4 and a #6,
the #4 is in good shape, the #6 in fantastic shape, looks like it's made yesterday . . .
The #4 is my main axe, just love this horn, never played anything like it.
The #4 has sn 84* (I should have a look, don't know for sure)
The #6 . . . . . should get it out of the basement . . .  :(
Therefore I'm thinking of selling the #6, this horn is just to good not to be played . . . .

==============

I remember a Williams Bass trumpet sold on eBay a few years ago, (now that is something else!)
anybody information on that one?

Thanks!


Lucky guy!  I know the guy who has the Williams bass trumpet.  He's a lucky guy too.   :)

I'll get a 4 one of these days.  They must be around in someone's attic or closet!

Aloha,
Richard
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #647 on: Jan 08, 2010, 08:40PM »

troy's    find is  most  likely a  485 
  --------------------
i  have  brokered  2   4s
 they  are  hard to  find  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
coulda had  an  8    passed on it for 500  -------duh  !!!!!!!
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tsmart

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« Reply #648 on: Jan 08, 2010, 09:39PM »

troy's    find is  most  likely a  485 
If I hadn't have noticed the brace on the slide, and took a "double take"..... then called and ask the maker - I would have missed it thinking it was a HArry Pedler or something.
I about fell out of the chair when she said it's a Williams Eeek!.
I said "Sold!!!" :D

T.
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« Reply #649 on: Jan 09, 2010, 11:28AM »

If it is a 4 it is a .491 bore.....
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tsmart

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« Reply #650 on: Jan 18, 2010, 10:12AM »

My niece took it to my sister, who shipped it today.  Good!

It should be here by Thursday/Friday.  Good!

T.
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #651 on: Jan 18, 2010, 11:50AM »

latest  sale   a model  6  takes wings   from  ground  [??????]  !!!!!!!!!
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tsmart

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« Reply #652 on: Jan 18, 2010, 01:59PM »

latest  sale   a model  6  takes wings   from  ground  [??????]  !!!!!!!!!
Dj is da brokerman, with the plan!  Good!

T.
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« Reply #653 on: Jan 20, 2010, 09:02AM »

My Willams 4 arrived today. My neice and sister really took care of me, and helped me get this horn. The buyer didn't want to ship, so having relatives in Fla was just GREAT.

(Dan - tuns out, it's not a Wallace And Williams. It's a very early Williams from all indications.)

Info....
On the bell, it reads....
Made By
Williams
Los Angeles
Calif

It is tuning in slide, no slide lock on slide - which points more toward pre-WWII. Maybe a 1938ish??

Remarkably, I can only find 3 places on the bell secion - which are VERY small. I think 2 would be considered minor dings, and 1 a minor dent - not in bad shape at all!!
The slide moves OK, and the tubes look good. One tube shows minimal wear (very minimal). No hang ups - should be great once I clean and re-lube with SOM.

The mouthpiece, only says "2". Might be a Williams, might not be - don't know...

The only thing, is the finish. The finish is poor. Not sure if it's gold plate, or lacquer. Needs to be stipped and re-finished (IMHO). But for the price, I'm in Heaven (greatest find I'll ever get). I plan to play this jewel in the rough, for many years.

Oh, the serial number is.... 687. Just above the serial number, is an "M".

The case, is the same as my 1930 Olds Military. Another pointing toward a late 1930's birth of this horn.

Pics to come, as I get them uploaded to photobucket.

T.
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« Reply #654 on: Jan 20, 2010, 09:30AM »

Pics....

Like I said, it needs a re-finish job.


Bell:





TIS (in)



TIS (out)



Hand Grip



MPC




Spit Valve



Assembled



Thoughts?

Early Williams? 1938ish?
Bore - not sure yet.

T.
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« Reply #655 on: Jan 20, 2010, 09:45AM »

"I know nothing, I know nothing"

to quote "Sgt. Schultz" but do you want a vingtage trombone to look like it just came off the shelf, possibly like a counterfiet?, or would you want it to have some interesting "age" marks?  I would look at how to stop the deteriation and make sure anything that needs to be done to make it playable is done - repair dents - but I'm not sure I want it looking "factory fresh".  At the very least, you lose the original laquer so is it a "Williams" horn or something else???

"I know nothing, I know nothing"

to quote "Sgt. Schultz"

what do the Williams collectors say???
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« Reply #656 on: Jan 20, 2010, 09:55AM »

what do the Williams collectors say???
Hoping to get some input from a few of them.  Good!

First step, is measure the bore (one of the garage guys at work, has a nice caliper at home - he uses when he works for NASCAR or weekends). Will measure Bore in the morning..
Step 2 - take to get it chem cleaned, by my local brass tech - drop off tomorrow at lunch.
Step 3 - play for a while, until i decide what to do (from opinions I gather here, after the chem clean - if it makes the finish any better, but doubt it'll help much).

Value "like is"? No idea
Value "re-finished"? No idea
Prolly don't matter. I have no intent to sell it.
Playing it in my local Jzz Band Value - priceless.  :D
But I have heard anywhere from $1,000-$8,000 (depending on demand).

If someone offers me $10K - might think about it. Could buy a new duck boat, and a new browning (or Benelli) shot gun for that.  Eeek!

T.
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« Reply #657 on: Jan 20, 2010, 10:30AM »

Forgot to mention -
Bell size...
7 & 1/2 inches....

T.
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« Reply #658 on: Jan 20, 2010, 12:36PM »

Congratulations! Great find! Looks like a very early Williams, with lots of design left overs from the Wallace era. A most excellent horn. Very similar except for the engraving, of the Silver Wallace Williams I have. The tuning in the slide on mine is on the bottom. counterweight, spit valve, etc all the same as my Wallace. So it is a very authentic horn! I would hesitate to call it a model 4 just yet, or at least until you measure the bore. A model 4 would be a .491 bore, a 6 would be a .500, and an 8 would be a .522 bore.

Hard to tell in the photos whether it is Gold plate, or lacquer. But looks to be in fantastic shape. Earl used King cases on about 90% of his horns, and a few Olds cases. This would be from the time frame he and Earl Strickler worked at Olds in Los Angeles Ca. So that may be where some of the Olds cases came from. I am sure he used the engravers from Olds to do that work. Most of his horns from that era were very ornate like this one, or very plain. Does not seem to be much in between on engraving.

I think the mouthpiece might be a Bert Herrick, or a Williams mouthpiece, Earl made a few MP's over the years. Robb Stewart has one with an Ivory rim that Earl did. You might check with Noah Gladstone on the MP he is more famiiar with that than I am. He owns many Herrick MP's and has seen a few Williams MP's and I have only seen one. The 7.5" bell is not necessarily a 4 either, that was pretty average in its day for Earl. His larger bore horns seem to have mostly 8" bells, a few 7.5" bells on .500 bores in that time. It will be interesting to see what the bore size is.

Congratulations are in order, what a great find and a tremendous horn you have there!!!

j
Thanks for calling this morning also.
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« Reply #659 on: Jan 20, 2010, 01:27PM »

Attention TTF members--

You may be a WINNER if you had the following words, to appear in a single post, in the TTF office pool:

1.duck boat
2.shotgun
3, NASCAR

There would have been a BONUS payment of $1,000,000 in the office pool had the following lucky word appeared as well:

4. Confederate
( the board would have accepted "Rebel" for "confederate" as well )

*****
The winning Canadian pool words today would have been "doughnut" or "brewski".
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