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slideman
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« on: Mar 09, 2009, 03:35PM »

Anyone know of any good insurance companies that will cover your axe? (lost, stolen, etc.etc.)


Thanks
« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2009, 12:08PM by Joe Jackson » Logged
RedHotMama
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 09, 2009, 10:13PM »

Yes, I do, but in the UK! Where are you?
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 09, 2009, 11:07PM »

How about for those of us in the US?

The insurance company told my girlfriend that her flute was covered by her homeowner's insurance, which seems a little odd because it spends most of it's days AWAY from the home.


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« Reply #3 on: Mar 10, 2009, 12:28AM »

The company I use (Allianz Musical Insurance) specialises in musical instruments (as its name might suggest!). However, home insurance is probably fine, as it would be for cameras etc which leave the house, as long as the items are specified.
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 10, 2009, 12:47AM »

You can get instrument insurance through the ITA.  Just go to the homepage and there is a link somewhere.  You should get a separate policy for your horns, as I don't think its generally covered under your homeowners or renters policy(AFAIK).
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Mike Szabo
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 10, 2009, 03:50AM »

I had my instruments covered under home and contents however Marsh insurance in Australia covers repairs, cases and accessories and even gives the option of a few hundred dollars cash for emergency hire for damage/loss close to a gig
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 10, 2009, 07:07AM »

If you belong to the AFM they offer instrument insurance as well.
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 10, 2009, 07:51AM »

I just checked with my insurance and found that our three trombones would be covered under our home owner's policy but we would have a $$$ deductible on each trombone.  It was suggested we look into a separate "personal article" policy, costing $$ a year that would not have any deductible.  Guess its time to make a decision.

for those who have the trombone(s) covered under home owner's policy only, check on the amount of the deductible.
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 10, 2009, 08:16AM »

i asked my renters insurance and my car insurance providers and no luck according to them the horn would have to permanently stay in my car or house.  :(
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 10, 2009, 10:53AM »

We have insurance with Nationwide under a policy called "Inland Marine". We are allowed to get the policy since we have homeowner's insurance with Nationwide. This "IM" policy classifies the instruments as "professional", hence are covered even if stolen from a venue away from the home. It is less expensive than the instrument insurance offered through the AFM.
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 10, 2009, 11:42AM »

I just checked with my insurance and found that our three trombones would be covered under our home owner's policy but we would have a $$$ deductible on each trombone.  It was suggested we look into a separate "personal article" policy, costing $$ a year that would not have any deductible.  Guess its time to make a decision.

for those who have the trombone(s) covered under home owner's policy only, check on the amount of the deductible.

Um .. for those who THINK their instruments are covered under a homeowners policy or a personal articles rider,  READ THE FINE PRINT, 'cuz that CAN and WILL trump whatever your insurance agent or your insurance company's representative tells you—even if you get it in writing—regarding whether or not you're covered.

Clarion Insurance and MusicPro Insurance specialize in insuring professional musicians' instruments. (Disclosure: I have a policy with MusicPro.) These policies are "All Risk" and cover rental reimbursement, loss of income, and a lot of other stuff that "personal articles" policies don't cover.
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 10, 2009, 01:27PM »

I just checked with my insurance and found that our three trombones would be covered under our home owner's policy but we would have a $$$ deductible on each trombone.  It was suggested we look into a separate "personal article" policy, costing $$ a year that would not have any deductible.  Guess its time to make a decision.

for those who have the trombone(s) covered under home owner's policy only, check on the amount of the deductible.

i called my agent's office back and was told that the instruments, under the Personal Article" policy, would be covered for loss or damage wherever the loss occurred.  I will have to check out the policy, because agents have been known to get it wrong but, it sounds like a good deal to me.
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 10, 2009, 04:30PM »

Um .. for those who THINK their instruments are covered under a homeowners policy or a personal articles rider,  READ THE FINE PRINT, 'cuz that CAN and WILL trump whatever your insurance agent or your insurance company's representative tells you—even if you get it in writing—regarding whether or not you're covered.

Clarion Insurance and MusicPro Insurance specialize in insuring professional musicians' instruments. (Disclosure: I have a policy with MusicPro.) These policies are "All Risk" and cover rental reimbursement, loss of income, and a lot of other stuff that "personal articles" policies don't cover.

...look in the "fine print" for such things as non-coverage for "professional equipment."  You have to REALLY understand your policy.  Some insurers cover instruments UNLESS you make money with them.  How do you define "make money?"  Good question.  Not one you'd want to learn after trying to make a claim for a horn stolen while you were playing the one "for-pay" job you do a year... :(
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 10, 2009, 06:11PM »

I put my 2 bass trombones, my euph, my tuba, and my daughter's MacBook on a rider to my homeowner's. It is a separate policy titled "misc. items" and I was assured by my State Farm agent (30+ years, no complaints) that it covered all the items for damage, theft, weather, anything up to $10,000 (no deductible), replacement at current market value (not what I paid)...for $87 a year. I checked out Clarion and the others. The premiums are more, and more complicated to file for claims (all I need is a phone call). Of course, if I increase the coverage (for replacement reasons), the premium will go up a few dollars per year.

Talked to some other people and the message was, if you want a no brainer but could possibly have trouble collecting right away when you need help, go with the instrument insurance companies. If you want a lower rate, are insuring specific items, and don't mind going through the details with an agent...add a separate policy with your existing agent.

A general observation, you need to work with your specific needs. It might turn out that Clarion or other music insurers are exactly the right fit for you (for example, college students, renters, orchestra players with extremely valuable instruments).
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 10, 2009, 09:31PM »

I put my 2 bass trombones, my euph, my tuba, and my daughter's MacBook on a rider to my homeowner's. It is a separate policy titled "misc. items" and I was assured by my State Farm agent (30+ years, no complaints) that it covered all the items for damage, theft, weather, anything up to $10,000 (no deductible), replacement at current market value (not what I paid)...for $87 a year. I checked out Clarion and the others. The premiums are more, and more complicated to file for claims (all I need is a phone call). Of course, if I increase the coverage (for replacement reasons), the premium will go up a few dollars per year.

Again, CHECK THE FINE PRINT ON THE POLICY.

Better yet, sit down with your agent and have his/her go through the policy line by line and show you the language detailing what is covered, definition of terms (like "replacement value," which is almost always defined as the depreciated value of the item, not the cost to replace with an equivalent new item), ALL THE EXCLUSIONS (there WILL be exclusions), ALL the conditions of coverage, AND ALL the grounds for denying claims. I'll wager dollars-to-donuts your agent learns a thing or two about what and when the policy DOESN'T cover the listed items.

The LAST thing you want to discover is that you're uninsured or under-insured following a loss.
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 10, 2009, 11:37PM »

Heritage Insurance, without a doubt.  Call and ask for Joan Gallo.  www.musicins.com

They understand instruments and musicians, pay claims quickly without drama or wheedling and have excellent rates.
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 28, 2009, 08:46AM »

I just stumbled accross this thread and decided to call USAA. They said that my instruments were insured if they were stolen from the house or destroyed in a fire, but not if stolen from my car. They have something called a valuable personal property rider that I was able to purchase for just $30 a year that covers my 2 Eddies and my Willson euphonium.
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« Reply #17 on: Jul 08, 2009, 06:33PM »

I just stumbled accross this thread and decided to call USAA. They said that my instruments were insured if they were stolen from the house or destroyed in a fire, but not if stolen from my car. They have something called a valuable personal property rider that I was able to purchase for just $30 a year that covers my 2 Eddies and my Willson euphonium.

Funny that.  I was half way down reading this thread and called USAA to insure my horns.  Just as stated above my renters insurance covers if stolen from my apt.  I got the personal property ins which covers if stolen/destryed on my car, at a gig, etc.  As everyone had told me before USAA rocks!  (and so does the marine corps for which I proudly served)
-John
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« Reply #18 on: Aug 27, 2009, 04:45PM »

I forgot to update this.
So I insured my Silver King 3b and Yamaha YBL-613 bass trombone as well as my $600 wireless mic for around $4500 total coverage all together. This covers theft, loss, and vandalism ($500 deductible)
This is costing me $33/month through USAA.
Well worth the ease of mind.
-John
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« Reply #19 on: Aug 27, 2009, 04:51PM »

The best insurance? Don't leave any musical instrument in your car, ever, for any length of time.

 ;-)
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« Reply #20 on: Aug 27, 2009, 05:22PM »

The best insurance? Don't leave any musical instrument in your car, ever, for any length of time.

 ;-)

agreed.  But it also covers if stolen/damaged from a gig or my studio.
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« Reply #21 on: Aug 27, 2009, 05:52PM »

Unfortunately, I don't qualify for USAA, but I'm still looking at that Heritage Insurance Services, hopefully I'll find something worth while there.

Any others that can be suggested?


Richard
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« Reply #22 on: Sep 14, 2009, 08:12AM »

I had my trombones insured some years ago. It was an additional rider on my house insurance and wasn't much.

One of the things my agent asked/recommended me to do was not leave my horn on the stage at break time. His contention was that most damage/theft occurred between sets in clubs, and that I would greatly reduced the chance of a claim if I took my horn into the back room with me on breaks.

hth,
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« Reply #23 on: Sep 22, 2009, 09:11AM »

The best insurance? Don't leave any musical instrument in your car, ever, for any length of time.

The best insurance? Don't use the darn things! ;-)
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« Reply #24 on: Sep 22, 2009, 10:33AM »

We took out a rider on our homeowner's insurance for our instruments (flute, and a couple trombones). Real cheap and covers replacement value.
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 22, 2009, 11:26AM »

my problem is what is "value" or "replacement value"

I have 1917ish Conn S Model 3 a '76ish Conn 6H bought from DJ Kennedy, a 1940ish Conn 4H, 1910ish Fredrick Busch trombone, a 1910ish H N White "King Solo Model 2" a 1910ish Buescher Grand, a 1915-1916ish Frank Holton & Company Special and R. Wunderlich trombone which cannot be dated.  In addition there is the vintage Benge 190F date uncertain and a Yamaha 354 bought new when my son (now a sophomore0 was in 4th grade.

so how do I establish value:

what I paid for?  well I hope they are worth more that the cheap price I got away paying at auction on EBay

cost to replace??????

any thoughts

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Allen
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« Reply #26 on: Sep 22, 2009, 12:11PM »

my problem is what is "value" or "replacement value"

I went to a music store who deals in the instruments I own. They gave me a letter on their letterhead stating the value of the instruments that I used for insurance purposes to establish a replacement value.

This is common practice for jewelry.

hth,
Martin
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« Reply #27 on: Sep 22, 2009, 02:02PM »

my local music store had no idea on how to value mine b/c of the age of the instruments.

the more recent ones perhaps, I will contact them again and see.


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Allen
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« Reply #28 on: Sep 22, 2009, 02:36PM »

There is a Blue Book (literally) that gives trade-in values for a lot of instruments.  Problem is, I'll be most of yours are too old to be in it.

While these things are old, they aren't really valuable.  Unless you can prove that it was Eddie Edwards' personal instrument when he played for the Original Dixieland Jazz Band or something like that.  Or maybe Man Ray did the engraving.

You can do a search of completed Ebay auctions to get an idea of what the replacement cost will look like.  You should index this cost to the rate of inflation. 

If you claim the thing is worth $500,000 because it's that old, you'll get a big pushback from the insurance adjuster.  They might counteroffer with the scrap brass value (about a pound of brass; look it up).

I'm no insurance adjuster, but I feel that any playable trombone should be worth at least $150.  Wall-hangers are quite another matter. 
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« Reply #29 on: Sep 22, 2009, 03:22PM »

do you have a source for the "blue book" can it be searched via the web?

I realized that the trombones other than the 79 6H (:) the Benge 190F and the Yamaha 354 are too old for a "book value". 

I also realize that a "collection" is worth as much as you can convince someone to buy it for.  fact of life.

thanks for the help.
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« Reply #30 on: Sep 22, 2009, 07:54PM »

my local music store had no idea on how to value mine b/c of the age of the instruments.

the more recent ones perhaps, I will contact them again and see.


True, but if you tell them it's for insurance purposes, many stores will estimate "higher". You might be able to tell them the value you would like in the letter, and if it's not outrageous, you have the documentation you need for setting the insurance value.
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« Reply #31 on: Sep 23, 2009, 05:11AM »

do you have a source for the "blue book" can it be searched via the web?

I realized that the trombones other than the 79 6H (:) the Benge 190F and the Yamaha 354 are too old for a "book value". 

I also realize that a "collection" is worth as much as you can convince someone to buy it for.  fact of life.

thanks for the help.

I used to, but the store I worked at sporadically went out of business and the blue book is gone.  Sorry.
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« Reply #32 on: Sep 26, 2009, 01:01PM »

I really should look into getting instrument insurance. Only problem is that I wouldn't know the declared value on some of them.
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« Reply #33 on: Apr 19, 2010, 03:56PM »

My son will be traveling to China with a local youth symphony assembled for the trip. They will tour for about 3 weeks, visiting 8 cities. Way cool! He's also headed off to college in the fall.

He plays bassoon, and we recently purchased a used (just refurbished) Fox II for $7,500. The instrument retails new for $21,000 but is usually sold at a discount for about $17,000. So how much do we insure it for? When deciding whether to purchase it, or not, we had it checked-out by first a neighbor who holds a phd in bassoon performance and then the bassoon prof at nearby CSU. They both gave us a green light. The CSU professor's bottom line was that if we didn't buy it, he would. So I'm not sure what it's real value is.

Clarion was the recommendation from the trip organizers, so I requested a quick quote on line for $15K and it came back as $250 but didn't indicate the premium frequency. I'm also looking at Heritage. 

Any advice is appreciated.
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« Reply #34 on: Apr 19, 2010, 04:52PM »

if you can afforf it anf they will let you why not replacement value
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« Reply #35 on: Jun 16, 2012, 07:36PM »

Since we are already on the topic, can someone please explain what is a deductible? (Don't know that much about insurance terms, etc.)
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« Reply #36 on: Jun 16, 2012, 08:01PM »

A deductible is the amount of the loss that the insurance company will not reimburse.  This is to keep people from making small claims.

For example, it would be reasonable to have a $500 deductible on your collision insurance for your car.  In the event that you had an at-fault accident that cost $1500 to repair your car, you would only receive $1000 from the insurance company.

For coin insurance, it's similar.  If you have a $500 deductible, then the first $500 of any loss is not reimbursed.
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« Reply #37 on: Jun 16, 2012, 08:09PM »

Since we are already on the topic, can someone please explain what is a deductible? (Don't know that much about insurance terms, etc.)

<I see silverbone beat me, but here goes>

A deductible is the part you have to pay if you have an insured loss.

Very often collision coverage for your car is sold with a deductible.  As an example, if you have collision insurance with $1,000 deductible, you pay the first $1,000 in damage.  So if you have an accident that causes $2,500 worth of damage to your car, the insurance company pays $1,500 and you pay $1,000.

Same thing goes for musical instrument insurance.  If you buy a policy that has $1,000 deductible and they steal a mute worth $80 you won't get anything back.  But if they steal a trombone worth $3,500 the insurance company pays $2,600 and you pay $1,000.

Naturally, the lower the deductible the more expensive the policy.  So look carefully at what your insurance cost is.  If the $500 deductible is $500 more than the $1,000 deductible, obviously you won't make back the difference.

Remember that you probably have a lot of gear to insure.  Not just the trombone, but any electronics you shlep to all your gigs (amp, mic, stands, etc.).

If you are a member of AFM, look into their instrument insurance.  It's usually a good buy.

Good luck.
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« Reply #38 on: Jun 16, 2012, 08:22PM »

Ok, I think I understand.
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« Reply #39 on: Sep 20, 2012, 10:54AM »

True, but if you tell them it's for insurance purposes, many stores will estimate "higher". You might be able to tell them the value you would like in the letter, and if it's not outrageous, you have the documentation you need for setting the insurance value.

I took out a new policy last week and took my horn in to my local store for appraisal (Dillon's, for those of you who know.)  They were very kind to me on the appraisal, since chances are very good that if I did need a replacement, I'd be buying it there.  A smart music store knows the truth:  the replacement value isn't money in your pocket, it's money in theirs (if God forbid something were to happen.)

Of course, I don't think I'd get the same number quoted to me if I was trading it in...  :cry:
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Dennis Clason

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« Reply #40 on: Sep 28, 2012, 11:59PM »

My son will be traveling to China with a local youth symphony assembled for the trip. They will tour for about 3 weeks, visiting 8 cities. Way cool! He's also headed off to college in the fall.

He plays bassoon, and we recently purchased a used (just refurbished) Fox II for $7,500. The instrument retails new for $21,000 but is usually sold at a discount for about $17,000. So how much do we insure it for? When deciding whether to purchase it, or not, we had it checked-out by first a neighbor who holds a phd in bassoon performance and then the bassoon prof at nearby CSU. They both gave us a green light. The CSU professor's bottom line was that if we didn't buy it, he would. So I'm not sure what it's real value is.

Clarion was the recommendation from the trip organizers, so I requested a quick quote on line for $15K and it came back as $250 but didn't indicate the premium frequency. I'm also looking at Heritage. 

Any advice is appreciated.

Well, I've just gone through the insurance claim thing, and I'm pretty content.

Background:  I'm on one university faculty in the Southwest U.S. and my wife is on another faculty in the Northeast/Midwest.  She has our cats, so I'm the one who travels.  While I was there this summer, our house was burgled.  My bass was in a gig bag, and it was found.  Apparently junior burglar asked the senior burglar about it, and was told to leave it behind.  It was thrown into a wall or something -- the slide was badly torqued and the bell bead bent back almost completely around the circumference.

Repair cost estimate was ~$3500, with repair date dependent on parts availability from Bach.  My insurance company asked about replacement and was not too happy about MSRP on a Bach 50T3 @ $9K and a street price just under $7K.  I don't think they would have cared for the price on a new Shires very much either.

Fortunately, Noah Gladstone (a/k/a Slipmo, here) had a nearly new Bach for about the repairs estimate.  I tried the horn when I was out in California a few weeks ago.  I love the horn, and my insurance company agreed to purchase it.  Everyone's happy.  Or, at least, I'll be happy when the horn gets here next week.

So, what should you insure his bassoon for?  I'd say to insure it for the street price.  You might get lucky and find another really good reconditioned instrument, but you might not.  Insurance companies know that no one pays MSRP on musical instruments: they won't authorize reimbursement at MSRP.

Oh, one other thing you should know about "replacement value insurance."  There are two flavors: one will reimburse for the purchase of an identical item, the other for the current functional replacement.  One of the things the burglar stole was an old CRT-TV/VCR combo.  Actual Cash Value is $21.  No one makes CRT-TVs anymore and scarcely anyone makes VCRs.  They are authorizing a 21" 1080p LCD/DVD combo unit at $199.  They're paying us $21 now.  If I go to BestBuy (say) and purchase a LCD/DVD combo unit (or an LCD TV or a DVD player) they will reimburse up to another $178.  If I spend more than that, it's on us.  If I spend less, they reimburse up to the actual cost.

When you look at it in that light, it doesn't make sense to insure much beyond the street price.  You should go beyond it some, though.  Double reed players carry all their reed-fixing toys around with them, an extra bocal or two, etc.  We carry mutes, stands, etc.  If someone steals your instrument, they'll likely get all the goodies too.
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« Reply #41 on: Dec 17, 2012, 12:21PM »

The AFM instrument insurance is excellent, I have it.  It is thru MARSH in Chicago.  Insurance for market replacement value minus $100 deductable.  Any YOU tell them what it will cost to replace the horn when you take out the policy.  I have 5 trombones, a keyboard and amp, a euphonium and 2 tubas insured for MSRP values that I update every year as things get more expensive. Policy costs me about $170 for the year.  Made a claim a few years ago - no problem, and didn't get cancelled.  If only the car insurance were this good!  Covers ALL risk.  Your home owners policy will not cover your axes if you use them to make $$$.
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« Reply #42 on: Sep 08, 2014, 03:42PM »

MusicPro

https://www.musicproinsurance.com/

They will insure instruments, cases, gear, your PC, sound equipment...pretty much everything.
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