Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1087334 Posts in 72018 Topics- by 19243 Members - Latest Member: CABurton159
Jump to:  
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: joining the "olds" crowd  (Read 45258 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
bonesmarsh
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 22, 2007
Posts: 2200

View Profile
« Reply #260 on: Dec 16, 2015, 08:08PM »

From my experience- A Super is ONLY a super. Same relative size as a King 2B, but the combination of nickle silver and that thick thick red bell makes it a cannon. Regardless of mouthpiece you plug in the sound out the bell is just Super.

A King 2B is a great chameleon. The Super is the exact opposite.
So, your chops do what it wants you to. It runs the show, not you.

Recording? Not so much. Big enough--with a wider slide-- to be more accommodating.
More wiggle room in a Recording, if you will.
A recording will change in timbre depending on mouthpiece. A Super not so much.

That said, all small slides are interchangeable on Olds bones. Try a good shape Ambassador bell on a Super slide. That might give you some idea of how important that red bell is to a Super.

The Studio might be close to a Super slide on an Ambassador bell. Silver slide on yellow bell.
Logged
Euphanasia

*
Offline Offline

Location: Moses Lake, WA
Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 5911

View Profile
« Reply #261 on: Jan 03, 2016, 10:47AM »

Interesting little mix-up on Ebay here--I wonder if this is how the Hawaiian got it's name.

This guy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1918-Vintage-F-E-Olds-Trombone-Excellent-condition-Phoenix-SUPER-RARE-/151892580357

is selling a TIS standard (for way too much money) and he has "Phoenix" in the title. Why? Because he's in Scottsdale, right outside of Phoenix.

This guy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-F-E-Olds-Trombone-L-A-CAL-patent-apr-2-1912-silver-Phoenix-/301839363096

is selling a similar horn, but he's calling it a "Phoenix model." He explains that he was "told" that it may be a Phoenix model, but I think he just misread the title of the first auction.

Oddly enough, he's also in Arizona.
Logged
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7197

View Profile WWW
« Reply #262 on: Jan 03, 2016, 02:00PM »

Interesting little mix-up on Ebay here--I wonder if this is how the Hawaiian got it's name.

This guy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1918-Vintage-F-E-Olds-Trombone-Excellent-condition-Phoenix-SUPER-RARE-/151892580357

is selling a TIS standard (for way too much money) and he has "Phoenix" in the title. Why? Because he's in Scottsdale, right outside of Phoenix.

This guy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-F-E-Olds-Trombone-L-A-CAL-patent-apr-2-1912-silver-Phoenix-/301839363096

is selling a similar horn, but he's calling it a "Phoenix model." He explains that he was "told" that it may be a Phoenix model, but I think he just misread the title of the first auction.

Oddly enough, he's also in Arizona.
You gonna set him straight?
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
bayouposaune
*
Offline Offline

Location: Louisiana
Joined: Sep 3, 2007
Posts: 13

View Profile
« Reply #263 on: Apr 02, 2016, 08:40AM »

What would the tonal difference be between the Opera O-23 and the Symphony O-25? I know the O-23 has a slightly smaller bore, but I'm curious about the nickel silver versus the red brass.
Logged

last updated 3000 B.C.
schlitzbeer
*
Offline Offline

Location: Bremerton, WA
Joined: Oct 2, 2012
Posts: 215

View Profile
« Reply #264 on: Apr 02, 2016, 11:24PM »

I've joined this crowd with a P-22. I've been looking to drop down to one valve for quite sometime. Been searching the forum for months looking it up. FWIW, I've seen no need to cut the horn, to make it play in tune. It plays just fine.

I've found the horn to be balanced quite well. I had a CT release back in '01. My only concern is how to get the rest of the finish off. It's largely off the slide and valve sections already. Anyhow, you Olds guys have helped me make a good purchase that fits my needs.

Finally, I'm curious as to if anybody uses neotech grip on this model, and what their experiences have been like....
Logged
djcwardog
Fan of old trombones

*
Offline Offline

Location: Central KY
Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 30
"Abys love trombone!"


View Profile
« Reply #265 on: Oct 12, 2016, 02:56PM »

Having recently acquired a small collection of small bore horns, I kept just one, my Olds P-16 "Custom Crafted".

Like some other folks on here, I play a rather wide rim.  For me it's an XT104.  1.04" or 26.40 mm.  This would equate to Bach 2.5 size, if they had ever made such a thing.  This goes on a Doug Elliott C cup and shank for these horns.  Mouthpiece choice seems to make my sound change quite a bit as I play on various .500" trombones.  Much more than it seemed to when playing the same rim size (on a G cup) on a few .547" horns I owned.

The .500" horns I sold in favor of keeping my 1979 P-16 were:
Shires 7.75" gold brass S1GM bell and a T00NLW slide - settled on their T00 #2 leadpipe - finest horn I ever played but sold as I scale back on worldly goods heading into retirement years.  Proceeds of that sale bankrolled all these below!
Conn Victor 5H from the late 70's - unbelievably good slide, but the solder-less bell rim was not my thing I guess
King 2B+ 2102PL from early 2000's - if ever a horn was made needing swappable lead pipes, this was it.  What a gorgeous and promising instrument.  I tried an old 7C in it, wow!   However, with my big mouthpiece = no fun for me at all.  Wanted so much to try a more open lead pipe, maybe some day?
Bach LT12 - this horn was awesome, especially in blending with others in a big (or a town) band section.  The medium and low range sound was great, belied its peashooter sldie bore and dimensions.  Lost out to the P-16 only because the P-16 made it easier for me to play high-range legato long phrase ballads.  For me, the winner was....

Olds P-16 = What a spectacular horn!  Sad that they saved their best for so late in the game.  Their catalogs reflected a premium price for the Olds P-16 "Custom Crafted."  Mine had the stock leadpipe made into a pressfit.  It indeed takes standard small shank mouthpieces.  I have tried a Kanstul H16 and a Pilczuk, prefer the stock pipe so far.
Logged

Sincerely,

djcwardog
Fan of old trombones - especially Olds
MaestroHound
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 691

View Profile
« Reply #266 on: Oct 15, 2016, 07:41AM »

Olds P-16 = What a spectacular horn!  Sad that they saved their best for so late in the game.  Their catalogs reflected a premium price for the Olds P-16 "Custom Crafted."  Mine had the stock leadpipe made into a pressfit.  It indeed takes standard small shank mouthpieces.  I have tried a Kanstul H16 and a Pilczuk, prefer the stock pipe so far.

Absolutely agree--P-16 is a masterpiece! I too play large-ish mouthpiece, and partials were so out with Warburton 4GS that I usually play (which is wonderful on another trombone). Got a Hammond 11M to try with it and there is no looking back. I like the stock leadpipe, too (mine was also press fit). The only other leadpipe I have, a Brass Ark 32H replica leadpipe that I use on a Yamaha student trombone, works great in a different way from the original, too. I would use it if I ever play P-16 in an orchestra.

I read somewhere that the stock leadpipe for P-16 was a Herrick design. I wonder how much of other aspects of the design of this trombone as a whole he was involved. It seems very different from any other Olds trombones that I have seen/tried, so I am wondering if there were ever a Herrick trombone, this might be it??
Logged

"Think before you applaud." -Abe Martin
Quiros
*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Alabama
Joined: Feb 16, 2016
Posts: 106

View Profile
« Reply #267 on: Oct 20, 2016, 07:50AM »

Finally, I'm curious as to if anybody uses neotech grip on this model, and what their experiences have been like....

I own a P-24, which is the double-valve version. I got a Neotech grip for it, which I stopped using only because it made reaching for the second valve paddle uncomfortable. However, I don't see why it wouldn't work well for a P-22.
Logged

I just enjoy playing!
M&W 929 dependent bass
Conn 88HCL
King 3BF Silversonic
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7197

View Profile WWW
« Reply #268 on: Oct 20, 2016, 08:40AM »

About the P-16. Wonderful horn. Nice low register, sings up high. Slices right through when you need to, blends well when you don't. Responsive. I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but the slide is pretty darn light, too.

Doesn't really play like an Olds at all.

Me, I like the way Olds trombones play and sound (yeah, there's a shocker for you). I'll almost always reach for the P-15 rather than the P-16.
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
Full Pedal Trombonist

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 2983

View Profile
« Reply #269 on: Oct 20, 2016, 08:49AM »

From my experience- A Super is ONLY a super. Same relative size as a King 2B, but the combination of nickle silver and that thick thick red bell makes it a cannon. Regardless of mouthpiece you plug in the sound out the bell is just Super.

A King 2B is a great chameleon. The Super is the exact opposite.
So, your chops do what it wants you to. It runs the show, not you.

Recording? Not so much. Big enough--with a wider slide-- to be more accommodating.
More wiggle room in a Recording, if you will.
A recording will change in timbre depending on mouthpiece. A Super not so much.

I heard a recording of a solo I played on my Super. I was blown away at how much it sounded like a trumpet. It was a raucous solo section that had the lead players belting and at high volume and high register the Super had an extremely brilliant and cutting timbre. It wasn't my intention to get that hot, but maybe it did what it wanted to. Softer volumes it can be much sweeter.

So yeah, on a Super I sound like me, but me playing a Super.
Logged

We don't just embrace insanity here, we feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.
Arrowhead99
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Posts: 165

View Profile
« Reply #270 on: Oct 20, 2016, 09:09AM »

About the P-16. Wonderful horn. Nice low register, sings up high. Slices right through when you need to, blends well when you don't. Responsive. I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but the slide is pretty darn light, too.

Doesn't really play like an Olds at all.

Me, I like the way Olds trombones play and sound (yeah, there's a shocker for you). I'll almost always reach for the P-15 rather than the P-16.
I can't help but ask your opinion on how the P15 compares to the P16....
I haven't played either one but hopefully in the next year, if I keep searching for one, it'll appear Idea!
Logged
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7197

View Profile WWW
« Reply #271 on: Oct 20, 2016, 09:43AM »

I can't help but ask your opinion on how the P15 compares to the P16....
Not really something that can be expressed in words - but if you play 'em, it's apples and oranges (or maybe even apples and pine cones).
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
tsmart

*
Offline Offline

Location: Lenoir, NC
Joined: Apr 9, 2009
Posts: 3984
"M R ducks. M R not ducks. O S A R !"


View Profile
« Reply #272 on: Oct 20, 2016, 12:31PM »

I can't help but ask your opinion on how the P15 compares to the P16....


I've never played a P-16, but I do own a P-15.
I love my P-15  Good! Good!
Logged

the fellowship  of  the slide

Μολὼν λάβε
Arrowhead99
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Posts: 165

View Profile
« Reply #273 on: Oct 20, 2016, 03:30PM »

Not really something that can be expressed in words - but if you play 'em, it's apples and oranges (or maybe even apples and pine cones).

how can they be that different-they're both .500 bore right? Unless apples and pine cones have more in common that previously thought....
Logged
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7197

View Profile WWW
« Reply #274 on: Oct 20, 2016, 04:20PM »

how can they be that different-they're both .500 bore right? Unless apples and pine cones have more in common that previously thought....
Well, they both grow on trees. They're certainly more alike than, say, apples and steel belted radials.
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
JimArcher

*
Offline Offline

Location: Olympia, WA
Joined: Feb 21, 2002
Posts: 2297

View Profile
« Reply #275 on: Oct 21, 2016, 08:07AM »

Ref. a slightly older 'entry' on P-16s.  Had one for years, used it for Dixieland.  Mine came with a Super slide; along the way I acquired a P-16 slide with a Herrick tuned lp (bought from dj).  It was a great player, this "experienced" novice discovered the meaning of "slotting" with that combo.  (The d-land group 'dissolved' a few years ago: one got too old (>90), another got dementia, one died some time after we'd stopped playing. That left me, the piano player, and the occasional drummer.)
Logged

Jim Archer, an old, old Olds fan
Olympia, WA
Arrowhead99
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Posts: 165

View Profile
« Reply #276 on: Oct 21, 2016, 11:48AM »

I've always found it amusing when someone says "it's good for Dixie"- what exactly does that mean? Don't get me wrong, I love Dixieland/trad jazz/Nawlins jazz yet I don't think I wouldn't switch horns just because I went from, say, Bourbon Street Parade over to Ornithology, etc...I usually play on a Recording or a Special for any type of non-classical music. For legit stuff I just use my Getzen 3047 AFR....just curious Confused ;-)
Logged
JimArcher

*
Offline Offline

Location: Olympia, WA
Joined: Feb 21, 2002
Posts: 2297

View Profile
« Reply #277 on: Oct 21, 2016, 01:04PM »

Re "good for..." in my case that simply meant that it sounded/played distinctly better than a couple of my other horns. 
Logged

Jim Archer, an old, old Olds fan
Olympia, WA
Douglas Fur
*
Offline Offline

Location: Seola Creek, USA
Joined: Jul 4, 2014
Posts: 808

View Profile
« Reply #278 on: Jan 01, 2017, 02:02PM »

SUPER. Yes it is but playing a horn without a counter weight is new to me. I can feel the fatigue in my left arm resisting the torque.
How do you other Super players deal with this?
Has anyone tried adding a counterweight? (Would the newer TV shaped CW fit?)
There is the "It was designed that way. Counterweights were not unknown. So it must have been intentional. So deal with it." arguement but ergonomics say otherwise.
It's definitely a beautiful horn that's fun to play.
What say you?
Duff
Seola Creek
Logged
Nanook

*
Offline Offline

Location: Pittsburgh,Pa
Joined: Dec 10, 2014
Posts: 155

View Profile
« Reply #279 on: Jan 01, 2017, 02:27PM »

SUPER. Yes it is but playing a horn without a counter weight is new to me. I can feel the fatigue in my left arm resisting the torque.
How do you other Super players deal with this?
Has anyone tried adding a counterweight? (Would the newer TV shaped CW fit?)

I too recently acquired a 1949 super, and I love the sound...When I mentioned the heavy slide to my instructor, he said I have to muscle it out....It has been better, so it looks like he's right...
Logged

“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”-Frank Zappa
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17   Go Up
Print
Jump to: