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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-Chat(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Is Lance Armstrong over?
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Ellrod

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« on: May 21, 2011, 07:37AM »

Both Tyler Hamilton and George Hincapie have testified that they witnessed Lance taking perfomance enhancing drugs. That would make it three of his fomer teammates (including Floyd Landis) who have accused LA of using. I kow Th and FL were compromised but Hincapie's reputation was still good. Is Lance done?
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Andrew Meronek

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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2011, 08:32AM »

With what?

He's retired anyway.
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lowerlip
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2011, 08:48AM »

well, as a cycling fan, I am not shocked by the latest from Tyler and George. They are all doing it. Does that make it right, No!
Lance will always declare that he has never tested positive. There is a difference in his mind apparently between a positive test result and actual doping. Just as in other professional sports, seeking prestige and money are the name of the game. The sport itself is so far down the food chain these days it's sickening. We as a society have no one to blame but ourselves. Lance is a cash cow. I don't see that going away.
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sly fox
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2011, 09:11AM »

well, as a cycling fan, I am not shocked by the latest from Tyler and George. They are all doing it. Does that make it right, No!
Lance will always declare that he has never tested positive. There is a difference in his mind apparently between a positive test result and actual doping. Just as in other professional sports, seeking prestige and money are the name of the game. The sport itself is so far down the food chain these days it's sickening. We as a society have no one to blame but ourselves. Lance is a cash cow. I don't see that going away.

I hope he didn't.  However, in a lot of sports, without proof there is no problem:

"no harm no foul" in basketball or football,

no one is punished for "flopping" in basketball or soccer

"not holding unless caught" in football

baseball players who get away with faking that they were hit by a pitch or a faked tag, phantom double play, as proofed by replay, are not punished.
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Allen
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lowerlip
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 09:46AM »

I hope he didn't.  However, in a lot of sports, without proof there is no problem:

"no harm no foul" in basketball or football,

no one is punished for "flopping" in basketball or soccer

"not holding unless caught" in football

baseball players who get away with faking that they were hit by a pitch or a faked tag, phantom double play, as proofed by replay, are not punished.
true, but no of the above involve taking a needle and repeatedly putting an illegally obtained substance in your butt cheek.
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lowerlip
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 09:50AM »

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/othersports/2015110213_digs21.html?syndication=rss
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lowerlip
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 09:55AM »

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/20/60minutes/main20064858.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
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JSBassTrb

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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2011, 10:01AM »

not a repeat of baseball >.>
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SensitiveJohn
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2011, 11:09AM »

Don't worry about what those guys in spandex do, and just go for a ride.  And, don't wear spandex.
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Tom Webb

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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2011, 11:30PM »

It seems that doping is what one is required to do if you wish to compete at top level cycling.    Armstrong's achievements are still amazing even if you go on the assumption he doped.

Cheating is very commmon:
http://teamjva.com/wp-content/uploads/lance.JPG
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 08:46AM »

I don't see a clear line between appropriate and inappropriate regarding performance enhancing.  It's OK to take "nutritional supplements" or "medicines" but not "performance enhancing drugs", and sometimes things move from one list to another.  Some practices or medical interventions are deemed acceptable, some are not.  "Doping" seems to mean ingesting or injecting certain substances in a manner or at times forbidden by a testing agency at the time a test is administered, and those rules change, and may vary from agency to agency.  The World Anti-Doping Agency is an attempt to bring harmony to the issue.

true, but no of the above involve taking a needle and repeatedly putting an illegally obtained substance in your butt cheek.

I would be more eager to pursue the "illegally obtained substance" aspect of this, rather than prosecution because a cyclist chose to inject it.

It is not clear to me which activities that improve performance but may shorten your life or put you at risk of injury or medical problems or have detrimental effects outside of the particular sport should be illegal.  Cycling up mountains in a tight pack with little protective clothing is OK, but taking certain drugs that may help one's ability to do that is not.  Training regimens to build grossly distorted musculature that helps in football but may be a problem elsewhere in life is acceptable, eating huge amounts of proteins to help with that is acceptable, but taking steroids is not.  Seems fairly arbitrary to me.
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Brian

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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2011, 11:34AM »

For at last 10 years -- maybe a lot longer -- doping has been rampant, if not universal, in cycling.  Surrounded by many others who are known to have been doping, it would have been humanly impossible for Armstrong to win once, let alone many times.

The guy is a liar and a cheater, period.

People should not be glorifying these qualities.
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Where was Blackwater on the morning of September 11, 2001?
lowerlip
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2011, 12:37PM »


The guy is a liar and a cheater, period.

People should not be glorifying these qualities.





AGREED!
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JSBassTrb

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« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2011, 12:58PM »

Maybe he needed it medically due to the effects of cancer? To build his muscle and stamina back up?
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actikid
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« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2011, 01:13PM »

Maybe he needed it medically due to the effects of cancer? To build his muscle and stamina back up?

Maybe the cancer was brought on by what he was putting into his body.

It doesn't matter either way.

He was going up against the best athletes in the world and most of them -- if not all of them -- were doping.  He could not have won a single Tour without doping.  it is not humanly possible.

He may be the best racer ever, and when they all are taking the stuff, he still won.  I don't deny he was an exceptional athlete with an unreal drive to compete.  But he is a liar and a cheat.  I have some admiration for the others who have some out telling the truth.  If he has any self-respect, he will do the same.
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JSBassTrb

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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2011, 01:47PM »

Well if everyone was do it..he was doing it better? Hehe. Yes it is still wrong and he should be stripped of his winnings.
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actikid
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2011, 01:56PM »

he should be stripped of his winnings.
I wouldn't even go that far.  That whole sport is a farce today.  There might be some non-doping teams, but we have to assume that most were doping, so I don't know how you take the win away from one and let it go to another.

I just think that Armstrong needs to come clean with the public and admit what he did.  He has an opportunity to be part of the solution to restore this to the great sport it once was.
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JSBassTrb

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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2011, 02:02PM »

I suppose..I don't think it will ever be very popular unfortunately...it is on the same decline that music has been on sadly
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actikid
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2011, 02:11PM »

I suppose..I don't think it will ever be very popular unfortunately...it is on the same decline that music has been on sadly
It won't be on the level of NASCAR, but there are lots of people who would be interested in watching at least the Tour de France. 

I'm interested in watching great athletes.  I ride a bike a little, so I can relate to just how difficult it is to be one of the top riders.  But it all seems pretty pointless when all the teams are doping.  That makes it more of a freak show.
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 08:41AM »

Lance is retired, why don't people just leave him alone?

He's faced these allegations before, and took many drug test. Nothing has ever stuck, and he's always passed the test.

So these "accusers" (IMO), are just out for spite (maybe), or to get some camera time.

Who cares?
He's retired, he's not going back to ride any more.
Can't people just leave him alone?

Now, wait, the media needs something to feed on.
I was really disapointed in 60 mins, that they have fell off into the gutter, to get ratings.

Leave the man alone.

T.
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