Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1092575 Posts in 72179 Topics- by 19440 Members - Latest Member: drater421
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, Greg Waits) student tenor trombones: Startone SSL-45 BB from Thomann (Germany)
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: student tenor trombones: Startone SSL-45 BB from Thomann (Germany)  (Read 6787 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
George Butler
*
Offline Offline

Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 21

View Profile WWW
« on: Jun 06, 2011, 11:46PM »

Hi again, all,

I am still researching student trombones to add to the inventory at the kids's music school where I teach.  The guys typically start at age ten, with some starting even earlier.  They get a couple of 45' lessons per week with me.  I start them on alto trombones from Jinbao, but of course we switch to tenor, so I need to shop for some tenor trombones for the school's inventory for the second-year guys.

Thanks to suggestions from folks here on TTF, I have narrowed my search down to the Michael Rath-designed offerings from Packer, the big store in London.

There probably is a need in the inventory for a couple of "disposable" trombones, to be loaned to a couple of guys who are, uh, clumsy.  Does anyone know anything about the Startone SSL-45 BB that is on offer from Thomann Musik, the superstore in Germany?  According to their web site, it is there biggest Posaune seller, and they *are* tempting, priced at less than a hundred Euros each:
  http://www.thomann.de/gb/startone_ssl45_tenorposaune.htm

Is there anyone on the list (Europeans, I guess) who has tried these, and can offer me an opinion, please? 

Are they worth the price?  How is the tone and response?  Does the slide work well enough?  Are the partials okay, or are stuffy notes to avoid? 

Will Mamma like the case, and will the case survive sitting on a salty sidewalk at the bus stop during the long, long, dark winter here?  (I'm currently replacing hinges that have rusted out!  Ha, ha!) 

And, will the case and horn survive a kid sitting on the case at the bus stop?  (Who *is* their teacher?) 

I am not too concerned about looks, or a short lacquer life.

Again, these would go to a couple of, uh, rambunctious children, who hopefully will grow up someday.

Thanks in advance!
--George

George Butler, tromboon õpetaja
Lasnamäe Muusikakool
Tallinn, Estonia
Logged
George Butler
*
Offline Offline

Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 21

View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: Jun 07, 2011, 12:43AM »

Correction:  John Packer is a small store in Taunton, in southwest England, not London.  They offer a house-stenciled line-up of student trombones designed by Rath.

Thanks to my friend Stewart, who caught the error and nicely set me straight.

--George
a Yank who drives on the right side of the road.

George Butler, Lasnamäe Muusikakool, Tallinn, Estonia (up near Helsinki)

Logged
virtualhaggis

*
Offline Offline

Location: ...adrift in a sea of relativism...
Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 1910

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Jun 07, 2011, 01:00AM »

I was in Thomann last year and I tried this one:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_sl_700_jazz_bb_tenorposaune.htm

It was OK, but not as good as the JP Rath.

I did not try the Startone, but listening to the sample on the website (I love that about Thomann) I would not have high expectations. It sounds slightly better than the PBone.

I can recommend Thomann, though. They have a 30 day money-back guarantee and their customer service is very good.

Logged

Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
Douglas Adams
cozzagiorgi
Schnädäräbänz!
*
Offline Offline

Location: Matterhorn State
Joined: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 1322

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Jun 07, 2011, 01:02AM »

i would run away from this bone. I ordered one for a friend of mine who played it in pep band and tested it briefly.

Case: No good, no protection.
Slide: severly Misaligned
Lacquer: Ok
Intonation and partials: a little strange but playable

Hope this helps
Logged

I'm to bad to be a pro...
George Butler
*
Offline Offline

Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 21

View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: Jun 07, 2011, 02:50AM »

Grazie, aiuta molto!
Logged
charlielamus

*
Offline Offline

Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Joined: Aug 13, 2010
Posts: 120

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Jun 07, 2011, 02:44PM »

Actually, how about the pbone? They're pretty difficult to kill, and they are a whole lot nicer to play than some of the Chinese and Indian TSOs out there. And at 50 quid you can't really go wrong!

Charlie
Logged
George Butler
*
Offline Offline

Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 21

View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: Jun 07, 2011, 02:53PM »

Hi Charlie,

You'll have to fill me in:  What's a pBone?

--George
Logged
lingon

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 919

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Jun 07, 2011, 02:59PM »

Hi Charlie,

You'll have to fill me in:  What's a pBone?

--George
Sorry to break in, but it is the great plastic little thing that is impossible to buy because it is always sold out... Check out the following thread that discusses it in depth: http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,53953.0.html

As for the Startone. I have an old colleague that told me that the music school near where he lives have bought a couple of those and that they are great value for the moeny. Good sound, intonation and slides. He did not tell me anything about if the cases are as good as you would like to sit on though. :) If I understood it correctly the instruments are made in Vietnam.

Logged

John Lingesjo
charlielamus

*
Offline Offline

Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Joined: Aug 13, 2010
Posts: 120

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Jun 07, 2011, 03:03PM »

I bought one of the early ones (so ner nicky ner ner).

A quick summary of the thread which lingon linked to:

1: website: www.pbone.co.uk
2: they are plastic and unkillable
3: They play like a reasonable student trombone, albeit with wooly upper partials.
4: Who cares? They're fifty quid and they come in silly colours!
5: Mainly recommended for use in big band gigs where the amount of liquid refreshment imbibed precludes the use of an instrument you actually care about

Charlie
Logged
Kbas
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 1

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Jun 14, 2011, 01:16PM »

In case you haven't decided yet: Some words on the SSL-45… I bought one half a year ago, basically because I needed a trombone for “rough occasions” (in my case, German carnival where the level of alcohol is a natural enemy to every well-tended instrument). The list of desirable characteristics was pretty short: Must make noise that resembles a trombone. Must not fall apart. At least not before Mardi Gras is over. The Startone has actually worked for me. I have been deliberately trying to give it a used look by treating it really nasty. I even left it lying around without having an eye on it. Nothing. One small dent, that’s it. No visible scratches so far. So yes, the instrument itself is pretty sturdy, with two exemptions: the slide lock is rather on the fragile side, and the spit valve cork has come off (wasn’t glued in properly).

As to the case: I really like it. The hinges are protected by a nylon-like fabric which covers the entire case, so rust shouldn’t be a problem. Sitting on it is something I wouldn’t want to try… but then again, few kids weigh more than 90 Kilos like myself. On second thought, it looks pretty sturdy.

The first thing I noticed when I unwrapped it: it looked more than just vaguely familiar. It actually is a blatant copy of a Yamaha YSL-354. I have the Yamaha here as well, and the resemblance is obvious. The spit valve is slightly different, but the rest more or less the same. Unfortunately, the Startone plays worse than the Yamaha. Not much, but it is noticeable. The sound is not as brilliant, and it responds slightly less well. That said, it really isn’t a horrible instrument. It definitely counts as a trombone, rather than a toy. I also have a YSL-647 here, and the difference between the 647 and the 354 is much much bigger than between the 354 and the Startone. Even the slide works reasonably well… not quite as good as the 647, but there is definitely no need to schedule some extra weight training. But be sure to clean the horn thoroughly before using it. There is a lot of dirt and dust on the outer slide (probably from the production process) which should be removed. But after cleaning and a good treatment with your preferred slide cream, it works ok.

So yes, it is a well-made copy. Bearing in mind that it retails for less than 90 Euro, the difference becomes almost unimportant. I’m not sure about prices in Estonia, but the 354 is priced at almost 700 Euro here in Germany. I haven’t played the JP Raths yet, they are not too easy to get here in Germany, but I have already been thinking about buying one. Without having played one: yes, they are better. They are actually bound to be. But they are currently sold at more than GBP 400, which is still considerably more than 90 Euro. My advice: if you’re looking for a trombone for absolute beginners, who are not sure about continuing, and who might treat their instruments carelessly, the Startone is definitely worth more than one thought. If you’re looking for a trombone which you don’t plan to dispose of after two to three years, and which has some “reserves” for advanced players, the John Packers might work better for you (again, haven’t played them yet, but have heard a lot of praise). 
Logged
George Butler
*
Offline Offline

Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 21

View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: Jun 15, 2011, 10:01PM »

Thanks, kbas!

These might just be what's needed for a "special student" or two.  Costs less than a floor lamp, and could easily be converted to a floor lamp later.

Thanks for taking the time to write.  I really appreciate it!

--George

George Butler, tromboon õpetaja, Lasnamäe Muusikakool, Tallinn, Estonia (up near Helsinki)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: