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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) The worst president and Congress ever
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ddickerson

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« Reply #440 on: Feb 08, 2012, 09:36PM »

But if all you care about is finding writers who agree with you, and you don't really care if they make any sense, you're not going to get smarter any time soon.

The first author was:
Robert Higgs is senior fellow at the Independent Institute, editor of The Independent Review, and author of Delusions of Power (Independent Institute).

He is a Senior Fellow in Political Economy at the Independent Institute (since September 1994), and is editor of The Independent Review (since 1995).[1] He is an adjunct faculty member of the Ludwig von Mises Institute[2] and is an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute.[3]
 
Higgs received his Ph.D. in Economics from Johns Hopkins University, and has held teaching positions at the University of Washington, Lafayette College, and Seattle University. He has also been a visiting scholar at Oxford University and Stanford University. Higgs held a visiting professorship at the University of Economics, Prague in 2006,[1] and has supervised dissertations in the Ph.D. program at Universidad Francisco Marroquín.[4]


The second article:
“Great Myths of the Great Depression,” by Lawrence W. Reed. Original edition printed in 1981.
This edition was printed in 2011 as a joint project of the Mackinac Center and the Foundation for Economic Education.

Reed has authored over 1,000 newspaper columns and articles, 200 radio commentaries, as well as dozens of articles in magazines and journals in the United States and abroad.[5] His articles have appeared in The Wall Street Journal, Christian Science Monitor, Baltimore Sun, Detroit News, Detroit Free Press and USA Today, among numerous others.[6][7]
 
During a 2003 address on the floor of the House of Representatives, Congressman Ron Paul paid tribute to Reed, acknowledging him as "one of America’s leading advocates for liberty", and remarked that Reed's writings "reflect his unswerving commitment to limited government and the free market as the best way to promote human happiness."[8]

So, you said "and you don't really care if they make any sense"??

You've got to be kidding me.

 
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« Reply #441 on: Feb 08, 2012, 09:50PM »

DDickerson, If someone uses an obscure poll to 'prove' that the general public disapproved of FDR, against the irrefutable evidence that he was, by electoral standards, the most popular president in history, then it's nonsense. I don't care how much salad you put after the writer's name or how many papers he's written.

I'm not taking sides here. I don't think that Hoover was primarily responsible for starting the depression, and I don't think FDR was primarily responsible for ending it, unless you count WWII as the primary remedy.
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« Reply #442 on: Feb 08, 2012, 09:54PM »

Back with the, "I'm smarter than you attitude"? "People who don't read history found it astonishing that Obama didn't come through and fix the thing on a dime, but all the people of average or better intelligence already knew that wasn't going to happen." "..you're not going to get smarter any time soon". Really?  Please spare me. There's two posters here who think they are smarter than everyone else.  Please spare the rest of us.

You're not really making sense. If I cite "people of average or better intelligence", how can that possibly indicate that I think I'm smarter than everyone else? Even if I included myself in that group, I'd only be characterizing myself as 'average or better'. You need to parse your posts a little better. Writing with precision helps us to think with precision, and vice versa.

You misunderstood my comment about DDickerson. What I meant was that he's extremely intelligent, and, like most extremely intelligent people, he no doubt aspires to get even smarter.
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ddickerson

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« Reply #443 on: Feb 08, 2012, 10:05PM »

DDickerson, If someone uses an obscure poll to 'prove' that the general public disapproved of FDR, against the irrefutable evidence that he was, by electoral standards, the most popular president in history, then it's nonsense.

If he was really that good of a president, how did he inspire the amendment to create term limits for presidents? That's something that no other president before him was able to accomplish.
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« Reply #444 on: Feb 08, 2012, 10:16PM »

If he was really that good of a president, how did he inspire the amendment to create term limits for presidents? That's something that no other president before him was able to accomplish.

If he weren't 'that good of a president', why was he reelected so many times? I won't speak to his quality as a leader, but it's a little silly to suggest he was unpopular.

Having two-term presidents was a long tradition, but not a law. FDR was the first president whose popularity overtook the tradition.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #445 on: Feb 09, 2012, 04:19AM »

The 2-term amendment was a result of the folks like Sen. McCarthy (R-Wisconsin) who wanted to prevent another extended Democratic regime.

A later generation of Republicans rued this decision when the Blessed Ronnie was prevented from running for a third term.

There was a famous story from World War II often related by Eleanor Roosevelt:

A young soldier was unhappy that he had not been able to shoot a Japanese soldier.  His sergeant suggested he simply go out into the jungle and shoult "To h*** with Hirohito".  Then he can simply shoot whomever comes out.  So the young soldier goes out into the jungle and shouts "To h*** with Hirohito".  A reply comes back: "To h*** with Roosevelt".  The soldier related later "How could I shoot a fellow Republican?" :)
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« Reply #446 on: Feb 09, 2012, 11:37AM »

You know, one of the reasons I don't put much stock in 'experts' who have an ax to grind is that you can pick and choose facts to "prove" nearly anything. The people who read things like that aren't bothered, because they're not looking for an accurate or balanced view to begin with.

As an example, I ran across an article on-line written a few months after Obama was inaugurated, 'proving' that Obama was the worst economic president ever. Why? Because, at that time he had presided over the largest percentage drop in the Dow at that point in any president's first term since the Dow started.

Pretty convincing, right? The guy probably had a degree and had written papers and books, and his claim appears to be factual.

Here's the problem:
The Dow (using rough numbers from memory) had plummeted from a high of about 14K to about 9K when Obama took the oath. It continued downward (not unexpectedly) to a low of about 7K (which was when the article was written).

As of this morning, the Dow's at about 13K. Do you think that same writer has written an article saying what a great president Obama is? Me either.

So why read people like that? An honest writer would say, "If this particular benchmark is a fair gauge with which to criticize Obama, it's also reasonable to praise him on the same basis." If you read people who never do that, you're reading dishonest writers.

The articles DDickerson posted fall under a similar style--hand-picked facts to make reality appear conform to a particular ideology. DDickerson actually admits this in the description he posted, where one of the writer's work is said to:
Quote
reflect his unswerving commitment to limited government and the free market as the best way to promote human happiness.

Unswerving, indeed. Why 'swerve' for a silly old fact when you've already made up your mind? I may be making this judgment on these two a little hastily, based on the 'teasers.' Still, if one's goal in reading is to learn, it's important when reading writers with a strong sense of advocacy to read equally competent writers advocating the opposite view, or to read writers who don't serve a particular agenda.
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« Reply #447 on: Feb 09, 2012, 12:48PM »

You know, one of the reasons I don't put much stock in 'experts' who have an ax to grind is that you can pick and choose facts to "prove" nearly anything.

So why should anyone read anything you write? You fit your own criteria.
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« Reply #448 on: Feb 09, 2012, 02:10PM »

So why should anyone read anything you write? You fit your own criteria.

First of all, you'd have a hard time saying what my "criteria" are, because I really don't have any. If I read something persuasive, well-thought-out, and well-documented, and if I'm not persuaded by the countervailing arguments, I change my mind.

Second of all, I expect people to take my opinions at face value, because I don't claim to be an expert on anything.

When I read, I either read sources that seem to be giving both sides, or read someone who's plainly an advocate then seek out the other side. And there always is one. I read up a little on the two economists you cited, and found a lot of areas of agreement with them.
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« Reply #449 on: Feb 09, 2012, 02:40PM »

First of all, you'd have a hard time saying what my "criteria" are, because I really don't have any. If I read something persuasive, well-thought-out, and well-documented, and if I'm not persuaded by the countervailing arguments, I change my mind.

Second of all, I expect people to take my opinions at face value, because I don't claim to be an expert on anything.

When I read, I either read sources that seem to be giving both sides, or read someone who's plainly an advocate then seek out the other side. And there always is one. I read up a little on the two economists you cited, and found a lot of areas of agreement with them.

You had no basis for going off on the credentialed authors other than you have a different opinion. That looks like an 'ax to grind'.
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« Reply #450 on: Feb 09, 2012, 10:45PM »

You had no basis for going off on the credentialed authors other than you have a different opinion. That looks like an 'ax to grind'.

Really?

Here are two quotes from my posts, from this thread:

Quote
I don't think that Hoover was primarily responsible for starting the depression, and I don't think FDR was primarily responsible for ending it, unless you count WWII as the primary remedy.

Quote
I read up a little on the two economists you cited, and found a lot of areas of agreement with them.

Still sound like I'm grinding axes? Your problem is that your method of thinking is to pick a side, stick with it, and read and present only people who're on your side. That's why you often use the phrase 'you guys' in your posts--you can't read anything without figuring out first if the writer is 'one of you guys', or 'one of our guys'.

Just because you think and read that way doesn't mean that I do.
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« Reply #451 on: Feb 10, 2012, 12:00AM »

Here's the link to the article about Obama's terrible Dow Jones performance in his first quarter or so as president:
http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=3080

Here's a quote, in case anyone's clicking finger is broken:
Quote
Investors so far are unequivocal in their opinion of Obama. They have zero confidence in him, as we further report on here. If investors had any confidence in Obama’s vision of the future, they would be buying stock right now instead of heading for the hills.

To the credit of rightwingpundits.com, I found this later article:
Quote
We lambasted Obama very shortly after his inauguration because the stock market dropped. Since then, the stock market has nearly doubled. Because we're intellectually honest and are here to inform our readers, we must report that Obama is a pretty amazing president. By the same token that we attributed the fall in the stock market entirely to lack of confidence in Obama's vision for the future, we have no choice but to attribute its subsequent rise to investors' astonishing confidence in his vision for the future. If we didn't admit this, we'd be a bunch of ********.

Just kidding, they forgot to post that. I should mention that comments on the original article are closed.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #452 on: Feb 10, 2012, 04:22AM »

I should mention that comments on the original article are closed.

To prevent any potential bouts of the honesty reflected in your "quote" there, no doubt.
 
The intellectual dishonesty of the Obama-hating right wing is no more evident than in the overt absence of honesty (such as your "quote"). The right Wingnuts have already headed toward the next shiny object, though (shininess being anything they interpret as another cause for whining about Obama), so by the time anyone and everyone with any integrity at all sees these blatantly obvious indications, the right Wingnuts have already forgotten them because they stopped shining.
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« Reply #453 on: Feb 10, 2012, 04:29AM »

I still wonder if the viciousness of the anti-Obama remarks would translate if the 2008 election had put someone else as President -- perhaps John Edwards -- with Obama as Vice President?

I could see the potential Presidential assassins holding their fire Evil

And to a large extent these are the same people who considered poking fun at or criticizing George W. Bush a form of sedition ("he's our President, after all!").
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« Reply #454 on: Feb 10, 2012, 05:14AM »

The Dishonest and Self-Absorbed Nature of Most of Obama's Hardcore Criticism
 
It's so blatant everyone sees it but those whose character is defined by it. That's why TEA Party/far right Wingnut types are America's least popular group, and unlike atheists, these types are unpopular due to familiarity--their actual behavior, not out of pure presumption borne of ignorance and our deeply pro-religious socialization (here's a standard issue Faux Nuze [i.e. extreme] example). If there were enough left Wingnuts to create such a nauseating din we'd feel the same about them as well).
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« Reply #455 on: Feb 10, 2012, 05:24AM »

You realize that this article has something that will immediately shut off certain of our posters.  Since it is associated with the name Rachael Maddow, it automatically is suspect from the Right.  It could have quoted Jesus Christ or claimed something that we all can verify like "the sky is blue" and the association with Maddow will poison it Yeah, RIGHT.
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« Reply #456 on: Feb 10, 2012, 05:34AM »

You realize that this article has something that will immediately shut off certain of our posters.  Since it is associated with the name Rachael Maddow, it automatically is suspect from the Right.  It could have quoted Jesus Christ or claimed something that we all can verify like "the sky is blue" and the association with Maddow will poison it Yeah, RIGHT.

Yeah, but why would I have any interest at all in the foolhardy notion of actually engaging that audience in any sense but the most shallow and pointless?
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« Reply #457 on: Feb 10, 2012, 09:28AM »


Yeah, but why would I have any interest at all in the foolhardy notion of actually engaging that audience in any sense but the most shallow and pointless?
Long winded Troll. ^
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« Reply #458 on: Feb 10, 2012, 10:05PM »

[teaser]
It appears that billionaire Warren Buffett will again profit from a major decision made by the White House.
 
“Warren Buffett’s stake in Bank of America Corp. increased in value by $154 million after President Obama and the U.S. Justice Department announced a $25 billion foreclosure abuse settlement with the five largest U.S. banks Thursday,” Patrick Howley of The Washington Free Beacon writes.
 
How did Buffet manage that?
 
Well, as it turns out, the man who has both publicly and repeatedly begged to have his taxes raised invested $5 billion in Bank of America (BofA) on Aug. 25, 2011.
[/teaser]

Let me go on record right now stating that I think that its not fair that I don't pay as much in taxes as my secretary. There. Now, I'm waiting for my payday. :)

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« Reply #459 on: Feb 10, 2012, 10:49PM »

Pretty weak tea, there. Are you suggesting that WB made the investment in anticipation of the settlement, or that it was done as a political payoff? Where's the evidence? He made the investment six months ago. Investors are allowed to guess as to the outcomes of these decisions and invest accordingly, unless it's based on inside information.

Or are you suggesting that the settlement was unreasonable, and that the gov't should have gone for more money in regulatory fines?

You accused me of 'trashing investors' in another thread, which I didn't do, but you're doing precisely that, and on pure innuendo. Maybe you hate capitalism. Shame on Warren Buffett for guessing correctly and making money!



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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." --Mark Twain
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