Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

953704 Posts in 62912 Topics- by 15329 Members - Latest Member: samytrombone
Jump to:  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Slide-o-mix breakdown  (Read 4105 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jmdhuse
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chandler, AZ
Joined: Jun 30, 2009
Posts: 101

View Profile
« on: Aug 25, 2011, 02:10PM »

Hey Folks,

Has anyone else noticed that the fluid in the larger slide-o-mix bottle seems to break down under high heat?  It's happened to me a couple of times that I've had my horn in the trunk on a hot day (Phoenix hot - 114 in the shade, probably 140+ in the trunk) and later, when I go to apply the large bottle instead of being it's normal thick, milky self, it just comes out clear and thin as water (or oil?) and provides no lubrication...  The first time it happened I had no explanation, but now it has happened to a second bottle, and I've connected it to the heat... Any idea if it can be restored to it's former self?  The stuff's too expensive to have it go bad like this - and I really like it as a lubricant!

Thanks, Jon.
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 42793
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Aug 25, 2011, 02:24PM »

This has been reported before.

SOM doesn't like hot weather.  It isn't limited to Phoenix.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Section Ldr, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch.
JP
*
*
Offline Offline

Location: San Diego, California, USA
Joined: Sep 6, 2000
Posts: 4096

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Aug 25, 2011, 02:45PM »

A colleague told me recently that he keeps it in the refrigerator. I have moved onto the Yamaha stuff, I like it better.
Logged

JP
Trombonists just slide through life
GetzenBassPlayer

*
Offline Offline

Location: Seattle, Washington
Joined: Aug 21, 2002
Posts: 5950
"Practice makes the horn sound good."


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Aug 25, 2011, 11:02PM »

A colleague told me recently that he keeps it in the refrigerator. I have moved onto the Yamaha stuff, I like it better.

I did too. For me, it works much better with less residue.
Logged

Pro level? Pro level!  You make it pro, you make it good You make it loved and play nice Then its a pro level horn
Leif

I can justify my position with a trombone in my hands and that's good enough for me
Beware wise men bearing equations  C. Stearn
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 9597

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2011, 05:48AM »

Did you shake it really really well?

I suspect it is an emulsion that coalesced, and possibly would go back if you shook it hard for a couple of minutes. 
Logged

Tim Richardson
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 42793
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2011, 05:51AM »

Did you shake it really really well?

I suspect it is an emulsion that coalesced, and possibly would go back if you shook it hard for a couple of minutes. 

You need a LOT of energy to make an emulsion (along with a lot of shear).  You can't get that just from shaking.  Maybe using a mini-blender would do it.  Then again, when you destroy the bond structure in an emulsion it's hard to re-create.  Ever try to reconstitute curdled milk?
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Section Ldr, Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch.
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 9597

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2011, 11:40AM »

You need a LOT of energy to make an emulsion (along with a lot of shear).  You can't get that just from shaking.  Maybe using a mini-blender would do it.  Then again, when you destroy the bond structure in an emulsion it's hard to re-create.  Ever try to reconstitute curdled milk?


No, but I've made mayonaisse from scratch. 

I yield to your chemical expertise though, having never had Slide-o-Mix go bad.
Logged

Tim Richardson
tsmart

*
Offline Offline

Location: Lenoir, NC
Joined: Apr 9, 2009
Posts: 3645
"M R ducks. M R not ducks. O S A R !"


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2011, 11:59AM »

Left the lid off my slide-o-mix (1 part).
Didn't notice it for a couple weeks - it turned to a water like substance.Don't know
Not too hot (it was inside the house, in my practice room).

T.
Logged

the fellowship  of  the slide

Μολὼν λάβε
Jay Moody
« Reply #8 on: Sep 22, 2011, 06:18PM »

I stopped using Slide-O-Mix a couple of years ago. Living in Florida, I experienced the same thinning out. Worse yet, even with daily cleaning, I had Slide-O-Mix chrystallize on me while playing in a concert and another time on a gig. I kept applying water to get through the concert and gig. It felt like there was a dent in the slide while playing, but it would go away for a few minutes with just a spray of water, then come back again. When I returned home, I cleaned the slide out with Wright's Brass Polish and never used Slide-O-Mix again. Reka was expensive, very good, maybe the best, but the relatively new Yamaha Slide Oil (A Bad Name for a good Product) was very good and also inexpensive. I've been using Yamaha Slide Oil on all my horns for at least three years. It's fast, and reliable. It does thin out a little bit in the really hot, over 90 degree weather that is common here, but still works well. It just runs down the inners faster!
Logged
trombonedemon

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 168

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Oct 01, 2011, 02:19PM »

I stopped using Slide-O-Mix a couple of years ago. Living in Florida, I experienced the same thinning out. Worse yet, even with daily cleaning, I had Slide-O-Mix chrystallize on me while playing in a concert and another time on a gig. I kept applying water to get through the concert and gig. It felt like there was a dent in the slide while playing, but it would go away for a few minutes with just a spray of water, then come back again. When I returned home, I cleaned the slide out with Wright's Brass Polish and never used Slide-O-Mix again. Reka was expensive, very good, maybe the best, but the relatively new Yamaha Slide Oil (A Bad Name for a good Product) was very good and also inexpensive. I've been using Yamaha Slide Oil on all my horns for at least three years. It's fast, and reliable. It does thin out a little bit in the really hot, over 90 degree weather that is common here, but still works well. It just runs down the inners faster!
The brass polish didn't scratch and remove the outer plating?
Logged
WaltTrombone
Former Titler of Teh Bick!

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Garrison, NY
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 8784
"Ein Prosit, ein Prosit, der Gemütlichkeit!"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: Oct 03, 2011, 06:41AM »

The brass polish didn't scratch and remove the outer plating?

You just use it on the INSIDE of the outer slide, unless your slide has no lacquer left, then you can use it on the outside as well.
Logged

Walter Barrett
http://www.walterbarrett.com/
Yamaha Artist/Clinician
Alto, Tenor, Bass Trombones
Bass Trumpet
Euphonium, Tuba
Graham Martin
Purveyor of 'HOT' Jazz

*
Offline Offline

Location: Redland Bay, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Joined: Nov 5, 2000
Posts: 10256
"Dixieland/Mainstream/Big Band"


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Oct 03, 2011, 03:54PM »

I am not so sure that heat is the problem. Living in the often very hot climate of Queensland, Australia, it is rare for the thinning to occur in the big bottle of the two-bottle system. It did happen to me once when a whole consignment to local music shops in Queensland was like water. I complained to the German manufacturers and they apologised and seemed to suggest it was a manufacturing problem. They said that, although it might be more difficult to apply, once it was mixed with the small bottle, there would be no difference in performance. I am not sure I agree with that but they also sent me several bottles of the all-in-one Rapid Comfort and suggested I give it a try. So I did and have been using it ever since. It performs exactly the same as the two-bottle mix and I do not see any reason to ever revert to the old product.

With the Rapid Comfort there is a small change in consistency in very high temperatures but not enough to make a difference. I have tried Reca and it is a direct parallel with Rapid Comfort in terms of performance. Price would therefore be the criteria for me but I still have to use up all the stock of Rapic Comfort I made my local music shop get in for me. :D

I still disagree with the process of spraying water on a slide as it makes the lubricant break down faster and I do not believe in the theory of 'beading' - those imaginary ball bearings of water for which there is no scientific proof. And certainly no actual improvement from my perspective.

However, please note that the instructions for application of Slide-O-Mix Rapid Comfort are to "apply it sparingly from the top up to the bottom of the two inner slides". Whilst I think this is a German misunderstanding of English - surely you go up to the top, or down to the bottom :D - it is different from applying the complex three-stage application using the two-bottle mix. Here you only apply the small bottle to each of the stockings.

So, for rapid comfort, use Rapid Comfort. Clever
Logged

Grah

"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."

tgate

*
Offline Offline

Location: Tracy, CA
Joined: Jul 9, 2003
Posts: 260

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Oct 03, 2011, 04:09PM »

About polishing the inner surface of the slide, I heard this from a great ,well known trombonist at a clinic some time back. My ageing selective memory is refusing to reveal his name to me.
Bill
Logged

Do not go gentle into that good night.
livecat

*
Offline Offline

Location: Lincoln, NE
Joined: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 184

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Oct 03, 2011, 05:25PM »

I have found that cold does in slide o mix, if it freezes it goes to a watery consistency.  Also, I have learned to buy it in person at a real store, and check the bottle contents before I buy it.
Logged
trombonedemon

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 168

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Oct 03, 2011, 06:40PM »


I still disagree with the process of spraying water on a slide as it makes the lubricant break down faster and I do not believe in the theory of 'beading' - those imaginary ball bearings of water for which there is no scientific proof. And certainly no actual improvement from my perspective.


I'm not sure what you mean, "those imaginary ball bearings of water for which there is no scientific proof."

Water is natural coolant and lubricant.  Ask anybody whom of which does machining.  Water makes any lubricant slipperyer. 

I'm still not seeing my self spending upwards around 20 bucks for slide lubricant.  To each his own, the stuff does not work on every trombone, modern or antiquated.
Logged
Graham Martin
Purveyor of 'HOT' Jazz

*
Offline Offline

Location: Redland Bay, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Joined: Nov 5, 2000
Posts: 10256
"Dixieland/Mainstream/Big Band"


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: Oct 03, 2011, 11:02PM »

Perhaps the sentence construction was not good.

Try:

There is no proof of the theory that water drops between the inner and outer slides act like ball bearings

We have discussed this topic many times previously and I remember remarking that I had always heard that oil and water do not mix. Somebody else said this was the very reason that the water droplets remained intact and acted like ball bearings. However, I am unconvinced because the only affect I notice from spraying a mist of water on the slides of any one of my four trombones of different vintages is an apparent increase in friction. That seems counterproductive.

You are correct, "Each to his own". We probably all have different expectations of slide action but I have never found that water makes any slide lubricant more slippery and I do not think that perception is imaginary. C'est la vie.

Whatever, I urge anyone who is not happy with their existing slide lubricant to at least give Slide-O-Mix Rapid Comfort a try.
Logged

Grah

"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."

RedHotMama
She Who Must Be Obeyed

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Luton, UK
Joined: Aug 22, 2000
Posts: 32860
"Forum Administrator"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: Oct 04, 2011, 01:27AM »

I've recently been given Rapid Comfort. Er.... a bottle of Rapid Comfort! (what a stupid name for a product - almost as bad as the pee-Bone!). So I'll be trying it soon. However, I'll still be giving the slide a spritz of distilled water.
Logged

Christine (red hot - that's what!)
christine.woodcock@gmail.com
In vodka veritas
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 9597

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Oct 04, 2011, 08:54AM »

RHM,

Try using it without water.

I find if I use much water, I have to reapply Rapid Comfort often, maybe hourly.

But if I omit the water, I can get a couple weeks easily, sometimes much more.

There might be a tiny bit of improvement with the water.  Or it might be imaginary.  Whatever improvement is there is not enough for me to give up the convenience of long life. 
Logged

Tim Richardson
salsabone
*
Offline Offline

Location: Bear, Delaware
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 829

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: Oct 06, 2011, 01:12PM »

I too have had this breakdown due to heat.  This is why I changed to the Yamaha product.  However, most of my King trombones do not like the Yamaha stuff so I still have to use SOM on my King horns.  Maybe it is a brand thing! Evil
Logged

Go for the The Topper you wimps!!!
trombonedemon

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 168

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Oct 07, 2011, 06:03PM »

Just purchased a set of Slide-O-Mix bottles; seems to me that the makers of the stuff have changed the formula quite a bit, since 10 years ago.  The Slide-O-Mix seems thicker.  The other formula had the consistency of laundry detergent when diluted in aqua; kinda smells the same too.

 :)Seems to me, should have given Slide-O-Mix another chance.  By the way, since when the price come down $10.  Found Slide-o-Mix for $11.  That makes me feel old!! Way cool
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: