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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, slide advantage) Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??
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LongmodelF

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« on: Aug 26, 2011, 04:50PM »

Looking through the classifieds for the first time I was suprised by the high percentage of entries without attached photographs. This puzzled me as I would certainly not buy an instrument without a least seeing a photo first. anyone out there who would?? and why??
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Richard Tadaki

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« Reply #1 on: Aug 26, 2011, 04:53PM »

I think it depends on the person(s) you're buying the horns from.  I've bought three trombones from a couple of people on the forum and have been very happy with all three of them.  Both of these guys have excellent reputations for the horns they have available and I think their reps are well deserved.

Aloha,
Richard
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sly fox
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 26, 2011, 04:54PM »

that is a question I ask whenever I see that someone has found an instrument on craiglist.

I mean, ebay is bad enough but you usually get pictures, on craiglist unless you can travel to where it is, all you have is someone's description

or am I missing something?

by the way, I have bought two trombones w/o seeing them or seeing pictures, both from DJ Kennedy and I haven't been disappointed.
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Allen
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 26, 2011, 05:14PM »

To a large extent it is dependent on the price and whether I can afford to buy a "pig in a poke".

I bought one that turned out to be a nice G-bass (I was hoping it was).

I bought another that turned out to be a Conn Director in a fancier Conn "Wedgie" Case.  I sold off the trombone, still have the case in case I need a decent case.

Would I buy a "critical" horn that way?  NO!
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2011, 07:10PM »

I would from DJ.
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Filthy McNasty

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« Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2011, 07:22PM »

I did and it was the worst purchase I've ever made. As a matter of fact, from now on I will never buy or trade a horn without playing it for at least a full week.
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Jeff Smith
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2011, 08:38PM »

As Sam Burtis often likes to quote:

Yer pays yer money, yer takes yer chances.

I've done it 5 or 6 times, and been both delighted and disappointed.
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Burgerbob

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« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2011, 08:42PM »

My four horns I've bought- three used trombones, and one brand new euph- have all been great. All sight unseen. As well as all the mouthpieces I use now.
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LizM

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« Reply #8 on: Aug 26, 2011, 08:46PM »

I know that I have had a lot of problems adding photos to TTF classifieds so I email pictures to interested parties.  Don't know
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trombone addict

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« Reply #9 on: Aug 26, 2011, 09:04PM »

If I am in the market for a used horn, I will go to TRUSTED sellers who are honest, and will probably exchange a few PM's so that I can get a better idea of what I am getting out of the deal.

Without seeing it? I would want at least pictures.  :/
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 26, 2011, 09:44PM »

no, pics or you don't have it.
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denNIS
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 27, 2011, 08:39AM »

I've always had a hard time figuring out why a lot of ads/posts don't have pictures.  I know grandparents who know how to take pictures (on their phone!) and post them to the internet.  It's not that hard.   :/
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chipolah

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« Reply #12 on: Aug 27, 2011, 08:57AM »

I would never buy a trombone online without seeing some photos. I think it's more problematic buying a trbn online because of slide issues. I've never bought a horn from DJ, but I'm sure from what I have heard, I would trust his word. I bought a vintage Holton 65 on Ebay last year. The photos looked OK. When I got the horn, the slide was completely unrepairable. It was sprung, dented and rippled. (the photos looked good) By the way, I put a Holton tr-100 slide (.500 bore) on the 65 bell (.458) and the result was miraculous. Great response in all registers and VERY in tune.
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 27, 2011, 08:58AM »

They should at least say e-mail for pictures

Sometimes its hard to put stuff up here
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 27, 2011, 10:29AM »

Pictures sometimes tell a thousand works, sometimes they lie.

I would buy an instrument from a seller I knew to be trustworthy, and those are few and far between.  I can think of a half dozen guys here on the forum that I would trust their word and pretty much no one else.  The TTF classifieds have treated me well, but I have not bought any horns off of it.  I did buy/trade a horn from DJ a while back, and it was in fact as he described.  DJ is my buddy and I know he likes helping people and not just selling snake oil.  He is legit and honest in his descriptions.  This forum is full of testimonials for him.  He is one of the guys I trust.

Now back to the point.  Caveat Emptor   Buying a horn from someone without pictures that is unknown and selling for too low of a price??  Probably too good to be true. 

Benn

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« Reply #15 on: Aug 27, 2011, 10:57AM »

Like Benn said,
I would buy an instrument from a seller I knew to be trustworthy, and those are few and far between.

If I was buying from a trustworthy seller and he gives accurate descriptions of the product (like DJ does) then I would be more inclined to buy it.

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dj kennedy

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« Reply #16 on: Aug 29, 2011, 12:10PM »

<a href="" target="_blank"></a>
====================================
IFF     REALLY  BIG  IF   A HUGE  IF :-0 :-0   
  i could  do pics 
i could  take pics of a total crappola  trombone
     AND  make it look  GREAT
i have  gotten  ROTTEN  JUNKQUE  WITH PICS  !!!!!! >:( >:(
==============
 i  have sold   numerous  trombone w/o   pics
you  cant tell  -if slide has  a pro  setup
how  a bell responds
what the vibration is like
if a  horn is a good match  for personality
what  it will need 
clean  or dirty 
-------------------
 even w  pics  sometimes it  is risky 
------------
 buying from a  ttf  member  in full standing is
much safer 
 because  of the ttf   code of honor 
w  certain exceptions  --namely   koda  goldberg
and  those   ttf  members  who  would  abuse  other members
w  a bad  bone 
 face  severe  criticism  from the  body
-------
in fact   many parents  who have researched  sources 
 often come to the forum seeking advice
--------
  buying from ebay w pics  --right now  july  18
no   trombone//paypal advantage  member ???///
NO REFUND  YET  Confused Confused 1136
dis[pute  /phone calls  //still no  $$$$$$$$$
----------
  while  pics    are  a great help
i know  what  a 2b   3b   bach  36  looks like   :/ :/ :/ :/ :/
  what i  wanna know   is  much  more 
----------
 and  this  much  more   is what  you  will get  from
 a ttf  member 
--------------------
GET THE PICTURE  !!!!
--------------
and thanks  everyone for  placing   much   value 
on  reputation 
--------
of  course  i have dropped the  ball on deals
many many times 
often  i loose track  of the  correspondence
and someone looking  gets 
forgotten
--------
    communication   is the  biggest thing 

------------
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XXXXooOOOOOXXXXXXXXX
LUCKY  LUCKY LUCKY  !!!!!!!!!!
Dan Martin

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« Reply #17 on: Aug 29, 2011, 12:48PM »

Yes Yes Yes.  Buy every Martin Committee trumpet that comes up for sale under 1001 dollars if it was made in Elkhart.  Thats a fact.  Who needs a picture of a great deal?  Just one example.  If you need it to be in a certain condition, visually, then by all means a picture is worth about as much a the paper its printed on.  The real test is in the blow. 

I think its the buyer responsibility to ask all the questions that have not been addressed if its important to you.  But if you buy a horn with limited information then its your fault.  If the seller has intentionally left out critical details that would tip the scales in their favor then its a bad seller needing to be avoided.  People make mistakes.  I have in posting ads. A full proof return policy takes care of that.   alway am willing to take back any horn I have sold, or am selling for any reason within a reasonable amount of time.  I think this takes care of any mistakes.  Just because you don't like the blow is not a great reason though.  It should be a no brainer.  If you buy any trombone without playing it first you may not like it.  That is not the fault of the seller.  It just seems like part of the equation to me.  Like buying a hat without trying it on first. Not my fault you look funny in it.  Now If you want to buy a horn on the condition that you would like to try it out first then by all means ask for that option. I'll do it.  But you can't expect the seller to eat the shipping and handling costs.  Insurance is expensive.  Its way better to buy a trombone from someone that cares about their reputation.  Most forum members here care about their reputations.  Some don't.  For example. If you don't know the value of an instrument that you want to sell, say a Williams horn. Most people here know that they command at the very least several hundred dollars. Especially the guys that collect them and already own them.  Greed can overcome some people and cause them to be dishonest and make them do anything to buy a horn.  Including omission of the truth.  The same goes for sellers.  They tend to get greedy and leave out something.  Its usually that something that is the most important.  Look at an ad and ask yourself what they left out, then ask about that specifically.  If you don't you will get burned almost every time.  On occasion I will pick a trombone that had pictures from a cell phone that are blurry, and there is no way you can tell the true condition.  Usually someones ex roommate or a parent that has no real desire for anything other than getting rid of a space taker. The hundred dollar 6h is almost always a great deal.

In short.  It always the buyers responsibility to ask the right questions.   
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« Reply #18 on: Aug 29, 2011, 01:00PM »

I did from DJ.....why because he has a great rep, and a great Rep takes a lot of hard work to build and only one bad deal to destroy!!!

And it's a great horn and would do so again...and that's why I recomend DJ!
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Richard Tadaki

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« Reply #19 on: Aug 29, 2011, 04:21PM »

Yes, yes, yes.  I bought a great blowing 16M from dj and it was everything he promised.  I also bought a couple of Earl Williams bones from Noah Gladstone (Slipmo) and they were everything he promised.  They were a couple of great horns and I hardly play the others anymore.  For sure, these are a couple of guys who are true to their word.   Good!

Aloha,
Richard
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