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Author Topic: Doodle Tongue  (Read 2328 times)
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maxbones
« on: Sep 04, 2011, 11:55AM »

I had a question about this technique. Which part of the tongue is primarily used for this technique. My impression was that it is using the tip of the tongue, as if I was actually saying the syllables da la da la or da ul da ul etc... I have been working in the Doodle studies book and just wanted to clarify the technique. When I listen to guys like Carl fontana and Bob McChesney do it, it is so clean and distinct. I am aiming to achieve that level of technical prowess. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 04, 2011, 12:06PM »

Buy Bob's book....comes with demo cd!
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maxbones
« Reply #2 on: Sep 04, 2011, 12:06PM »

I have the book already.
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 04, 2011, 03:53PM »

Well, I'm trying da la etc right now and that's not right. 

Try da dle da dle. 

You should find for the dle your tongue ends up on the roof of your mouth and the air sneaking around the sides and underneath. 

Carl talked about it as doo-dle doo-dle.  That puts the tongue much further forward in the mouth.  I find it wants to go forward higher and toward the ah in the back for lower, but your results may vary. 

In Baton Rouge, where I grew up, and where Carl made his first big splash with the Lee Fortier band at LSU, it's universally called "diddle tonguing".  And that puts the tongue way forward. 

Whatever.

After you get the syllables to pop with the air flipping from top to bottom and back, work on getting steady air through it.  Expect frustration.  Like lots of things a little every day goes a long way eventually. 

This tonguing works better and better as your flexibility without tongue improves, moving between partials with and without slide movement, so don't neglect flexibility work. 
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 04, 2011, 09:45PM »

Experiment with syllables.  Du Gu or Duh Guh have worked better for me, though I'm no where near the mastery of Bob, Carl and so many others!

I have the book already.
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 05, 2011, 01:04AM »

I had a question about this technique. Which part of the tongue is primarily used for this technique. My impression was that it is using the tip of the tongue, as if I was actually saying the syllables da la da la or da ul da ul etc... I have been working in the Doodle studies book and just wanted to clarify the technique. When I listen to guys like Carl fontana and Bob McChesney do it, it is so clean and distinct. I am aiming to achieve that level of technical prowess. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Try thinking of it more like doh-dlll.
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 05, 2011, 02:10AM »

Urbie uses Du-Gu

as Sam always says...try everything use what works for you!
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 05, 2011, 07:16AM »

If you are able to really fly with multi-tonguings, you are playing too fast to actually know what vowel(s) and consonant(s) you are using. Please...fuggedaboudit and just practice/play.

This goes to the Clark Terry masterclass that I have posted here a number of times. He speaks of "deedle dahdle doodle dawdle" and much more, but what he is really saying is...Tah Dah!!!...try everything and do it your way.

This also goes to the inductive/deductive reasoning concepts about which I also often post. You cannot induce precise physical approaches that work for you because there are so many possible variations, but you can deduce them from observing the ones that work best in actual performance.

Tah kah tah kah? Du gu du gu? Doodle oodle?  Who's yer guru?

In whose mouth?

With whose tongue?

On whose airstream?

Into whose aperture, embouchure, m'pce rim, cup, throat and backbore?

On whose trombone?

My "tah kah tah kah" is going to function differently from your "tah kah tah kah" because my physicality is different from yours. In point of fact, my language and regional accent will most likely also be different than yours. I have a good playing Japanese trombonist friend who has never been able to learn how to doodle tongue because there is no "L" sound in his native language. "Doorer doorer doorer" just doesn't cut it, if y'know what I mean. Now...that's an extreme example, but the old "I pahked my cah in Hahvahd yahd" Boston accent lick goes directly to this discussion. "Tah kah tah kah?" Which "tah kah tah kah?" Boston's? Mississippi's?  Stuttgarts? Beijing's? The possibilities are endless.

So instead...fuggedaboudit!!!

Easy to say, hard to do I know. But try it. Try to practice multi-tonguing past your mind's ability to watch what you are doing. Once something seems to be working...whatever it is...either attempt to catch a glimpse of what is happening at that speed and/or gradually slow it down until you can "watch" it.

Then practice what you have observed.

Deduction?

De DUHction!!!

No schimdt, Sherlock.

Duh.

Hmmm...

I wonder if Arthur Conan Doyle ever played trombone.

Hmmmmmmmm...

Later...

S.
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 05, 2011, 09:47AM »

Say fast: Little Italy.   Again.  Again. Do you know what your tongue did?
That is how I doodle tongue, thanx Bertil Strandberg!
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 05, 2011, 11:47PM »

Say fast: Little Italy.   Again.  Again. Do you know what your tongue did?
That is how I doodle tongue, thanx Bertil Strandberg!


 :D
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 16, 2011, 05:59AM »

Experiment with syllables.  Du Gu or Duh Guh have worked better for me, though I'm no where near the mastery of Bob, Carl and so many others!


Chip - you are actually just playing double tongue! The doodle tongue is, as pointed out already, about the syllables "do dle" or "do dle do" for triplets.
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 16, 2011, 06:03AM »

If you want to dig deeper into doodle-ing, there are a series of articles about it here:
http://www.digitaltrombone.com/category/trombone-tips/doodle-tonguing

Don tell anyone, but I would rather sell the kids than giving up my doodle tongue - it a life saver for jazz players!

Have a great day!
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 02, 2011, 05:34PM »

I had a question about this technique. Which part of the tongue is primarily used for this technique. My impression was that it is using the tip of the tongue, as if I was actually saying the syllables da la da la or da ul da ul etc... I have been working in the Doodle studies book and just wanted to clarify the technique. When I listen to guys like Carl fontana and Bob McChesney do it, it is so clean and distinct. I am aiming to achieve that level of technical prowess. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Hi. 

One does not need to think about what part of the tongue...

I recommend that you practice saying, "doodle oodle oodle" over and over.  Then try to do it into the mouthpiece, buzzing the syllables.

Then in time, insert the mouthpiece and do it into the horn.

Rodney
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 03, 2011, 02:55PM »

I've been practicing with "doo" "-le" it seems to be good for slower ballade-like playing. I use "di" "tle" for louder, faster playing.
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