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Baron von Bone
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« on: Sep 29, 2011, 07:50AM »

It had to happen.

I'm kinda surprised it took this long, but hereitis!

To a significant degree, and near totally in many cases, the two are inseparable. It seems clear to me you have to understand the religion of those theopatriots in order to understand their politics. But I think religion plays a significant role in most peoples' politics. Most are just able to separate the rest of their world from their religious views, or they recognize more or less reasonable parameters for how much their religious views should encroach into society around them. So at any rate it seems an obvious topic for the PP board. Politics and religion are both very central to many peoples' lives, and they interact in various ways that are worth exploring and considering.
 
So contribute, exposit, interject, explore and consider away ... 
 
Yup.




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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 29, 2011, 07:51AM »

Patriotism and the God Gap on CNN.
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 29, 2011, 09:38AM »

That is a great article.  Good! 

It speaks to mindset that I have encountered which is:
Christian = American Patriot and American Patriot = Christian

They are not synonymous. 

I appreciate the work of Pew and Christianity Today.  They seem fairly objective.  But what do I know...
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 04, 2011, 04:58AM »

Post moved to: Atheism: Good or Bad?
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 15, 2011, 08:30AM »

I'm a direct descendant of Rev. Rowland Jones, founder of Bruton Parrish Church in Williamsburg in the 1600's.

Many of my ancestors were preachers of various stripes.

Many of the men of my family, including myself, have served in the Armed Forces of the United States.  Some have even served in political office.

The one thing that my family taught from the day that I was a little bitty boy was that the Church is the Church and the US is the US, and that they are and should be separate.

I find the emphasis on religion in our foreign policy and our politics to be very, very disturbing.  I also find the idea that my faith is important to my patriotism to be equally disturbing.  At its core, the US was intended to be an idea, not a place.  That idea is best summed up in the Constitution.  The very first amendment added to that document, as a condition of ratification, guaranteed that we are free from the establishment of a state religion and that we are free to practice our religion without interference from government (a critical balancing act between two extremes today, but an obvious and complimentary necessity for those at the time).

I don't know what any of that means.  I know that I'm uncomfortable with the (it seems to me) ever growing influence of religion - especially a particular brand of religion to which I have no allegiance - in our polity.
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Gary P Kimzey
Baron von Bone
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 15, 2011, 09:36AM »

It's good to see you guys commenting here; GP, Trav1s. It's too easy for many to spin Separation into a believer vs. secularist thing, and that's not even close to reality--it's not even a bit less than close, in fact. It couldn't be a lot more false. If that were the case, in fact, it wouldn't yet be an issue at all. That would make it about 86% of the population vs. about 5%, maybe 10% max, and that doesn't make for the kind of division or contention we see on the issue. Thinking of it that way is a problematic distortion that needs to be corrected as much as possible in order for genuine dialog to work, and for the social and rhetorical climate to actually be about reality and at all productive.
 
Thanks!
 
Please stick around!
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 19, 2011, 03:58AM »

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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 19, 2011, 10:59AM »

This must be why it seems most Brits just don't get The Crazy, or appreciate what it's like to live with it when most of those numbers are pretty much reversed or how viral and toxic it can be.
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 19, 2011, 02:07PM »


That quote about people referencing the wrong kingdom is great. While I'm not religious, I definitely agree with the statement. That particular aspect of Christianity is laudable - to abandon tribalism - and to simultaneously equate patriotism with religious vigor pretty much spits in the face of this spirit.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 20, 2011, 05:05AM »

Exhibit A: The Crazy-Xtreme!
 
Profound Chronic Religiostupidification (PCR)
 
And you furiners ... don't get the idea that this is an isolated case. Here in the US PCR afflicts a very significant portion of the population (consider these popular books, and popular fiction by Frank E. Peretti, Tim Lahaye/Jerry Jenkins, et al). Some estimates say about 25% of Christians are charismatics, which means they buy into the whole demonized worldview. Of course the severity of cases varies a great deal, but the case sample in the link isn't really all that Xtreme! for cases of PCR (or just CR).
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 23, 2011, 08:03AM »

There's a very strong resistance to recognizing this problem, but the success of the fanatical religious right wing, especially over the last decade, does seem to be forcing the issue for a lot more people now.
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 23, 2011, 08:15AM »

Once more I hope that the ACLU will fight this tooth and nail.

They support some really despicable figures in order to protect the rights of those who would be shouted down.  First we silence the Nazis and the KKK.  Then we silence the Arabs and the Socialists.  And when they come for me, who will support me?
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 23, 2011, 11:24AM »

And now the poor Mormon Repug candidate is being eaten alive by the 'TrueTM' Christian repugs, not because his fiscal views differ (they don't), but because he is Mormon, and as everyone knows, anyone who subscribesis to such a pseudo-religion/cult is not worthy of consideration as a value-based Patriot Candidate for the presidency of the United Christians States of America.
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 30, 2011, 06:19AM »

Religion rarely unites very many people in the long term, or to a large extent (i.e. comprehensively). It's far more divisive than it is unifying, and it creates rather permanent and fixed divisions--seriously handicaps cooperative compromise, encourages competitive conflict (or rather, it tends to discourage alternatives) the ultimate form of which is war.
 
When you consider the nature of religion, objectively, based upon what is rather than rhetoric, it's pretty apparent that it's a highly effective mentality by which to "achieve" the very sociopolitical problems we're having right now in the US.

Coincidence? Correlation? Causation?
 
How about how the character of the Republican Party has changed over the last 30-40 years? How about how the influence of religion in the public political discourse has changed over the same period?
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 02, 2011, 05:08AM »

From Which one would the Dems like to see as the Republican nominee?
 
Quote
Pretty much anything written by a militant atheist is trash. Does that clear it up for you?  I'm not crazy about militant Christians either.  But I do find militant atheists especially disgusting.

Fair enough. I'm tired of being respectful of other people's religious views while other people are disrespectful of my lack of them.

The problem is the "standards" by which most people, particularly right Wingnuts, define "militant atheist". Usually it just means "atheist who doesn't keep it to himself, or who's so rude as to raise or even just openly deal with issues of religious nonsense", whereas the "militant" designation for a "militant believer" usually requires anything from real militancy to radical zeal.
 
This is the nature of bigotry.
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 02, 2011, 05:53AM »

this was originally posted in another thread, don't know if Ronkny will follow or not, don't care:

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ronkny

ever read anything by a guy named Thomas Jefferson???  Ever read his selfcomposed bible? 

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

Quote
. Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called "The Jefferson Bible," he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative.
This presentation of The Jefferson Bible offers the text as selected and arranged by Jefferson in two separate editions: one edition uses a revised King James Version of the biblical texts, corrected in accordance with the findings of modern scholarship; the second edition uses the original unrevised KJV. The actual verses of the Bible used for both editions are those chosen by Jefferson. Visitors should find the revised KJV text much easier to read and understand. Those seeking the precise English version Mr. Jefferson used when making his compilation can click on "Unrevised KJV text."

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html

Quote
. . . Jesus.
In this state of things among the Jews, Jesus appeared. His parentage was obscure; his condition poor; his education null; his natural endowments great; his life correct and innocent: he was meek, benevolent, patient, firm, disinterested, and of the sublimest eloquence.

The disadvantages under which his doctrines appear are remarkable.


1. Like Socrates and Epictetus, he wrote nothing himself.

2. But he had not, like them, a Xenophon or an Arrian to write for him. I name not Plato, who only used the name of Socrates to cover the whimsies of his own brain. On the contrary, all the learned of his country, entrenched in its power and riches, were opposed to him, lest his labors should undermine their advantages; and the committing to writing his life and doctrines fell on unlettered and ignorant men, who wrote, too, from memory, and not till long after the transactions had passed.

3. According to the ordinary fate of those who attempt to enlighten and reform mankind, he fell an early victim to the jealousy and combination of the altar and the throne, at about thirty-three years of age, his reason having not yet attained the maximum of its energy, nor the course of his preaching, which was but of three years at most, presented occasions for developing a complete system of morals.

4. Hence the doctrines he really delivered were defective as a whole, and fragments only of what he did deliver have come to us mutilated, misstated, and often unintelligible.

5. They have been still more disfigured by the corruptions of schismatizing followers, who have found an interest in sophisticating and perverting the simple doctrines he taught, by engrafting on them the mysticisms of a Grecian sophist, frittering them into subtleties, and obscuring them with jargon, until they have caused good men to reject the whole in disgust, and to view Jesus himself as an impostor.

Notwithstanding these disadvantages, a system of morals is presented to us which, if filled up in the style and spirit of the rich fragments he left us, would be the most perfect and sublime that has ever been taught by man.
The question of his being a member of the Godhead, or in direct communication with it, claimed for him by some of his followers and denied by others, is foreign to the present view, which is merely an estimate of the intrinsic merits of his doctrines.


1. He corrected the Deism of the Jews, confirming them in their belief of one only God, and giving them juster notions of His attributes and government.

2. His moral doctrines, relating to kindred and friends were more pure and perfect than those of the most correct of the philosophers, and greatly more so than those of the Jews; and they went far beyond both in inculcating universal philanthropy, not only to kindred and friends, to neighbors and countrymen, but to all mankind, gathering all into one family under the bonds of love, charity, peace, common wants and common aids. A development of this head will evince the peculiar superiority of the system of Jesus over all others.

3. The precepts of philosophy, and of the Hebrew code, laid hold of actions only. He pushed his scrutinies into the heart of man; erected his tribunal in the region of his thoughts, and purified the waters at the fountain head.

4.He taught, emphatically, the doctrines of a future state, which was either doubted or disbelieved by the Jews, and wielded it with efficacy as an important incentive, supplementary to the other motives to moral conduct. . . .




not exactly the King James Version nor the version used then or now by the Catholic faith, is it?

just wondering how you feel about his writings?  would you consider him a Christian, an athiest, a deist, was he a militant religious person?
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 02, 2011, 06:25AM »

this was originally posted in another thread, don't know if Ronkny will follow or not, don't care:

_____________________

ronkny

ever read anything by a guy named Thomas Jefferson???  Ever read his selfcomposed bible? 

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html




not exactly the King James Version nor the version used then or now by the Catholic faith, is it?

just wondering how you feel about his writings?  would you consider him a Christian, an athiest, a deist, was he a militant religious person?
Some of his writings are excellent and some are I correct. He was a diest.   That's a fact. Why ? Do you question that fact?

What's the point of this?
"this was originally posted in another thread, don't know if Ronkny will follow or not, don't care:"

Shall I write?
"not sure if sly will respond to this and don't really care ."
Before every post?   Don't know
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 02, 2011, 06:30AM »

no, frankly I don't care if he was a Deist, athiest, RC, etc, etc, etc, and so forth and so on.

I posted it b/c of your statements about not reading stuff from a militant athiest.

so you consider him a deist not an athiest. ok with me.

Some of his writings are excellent and some are I correct. He was a diest.   That's a fact. Why ? Do you question that fact?

What's the point of this?
"this was originally posted in another thread, don't know if Ronkny will follow or not, don't care:"

Shall I write?
"not sure if sly will respond to this and don't really care ."
Before every post?   Don't know

write what you wish, I just meant you were talking about this in the other thread and I didn't know if you would follow the transfer to here. not planning on discussing the stuff you and PM were hashing out there here.

did I express that thought - "don't care if . . .  " inartfully, yep, no doubt  I could have worded it better. sorry for any offense taken, didn't mean to cause any.
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Allen
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 02, 2011, 06:31AM »

From Which one would the Dems like to see as the Republican nominee?
  
Fair enough. I'm tired of being respectful of other people's religious views while other people are disrespectful of my lack of them.
The problem is the "standards" by which most people, particularly right Wingnuts, define "militant atheist". Usually it just means "atheist who doesn't keep it to himself, or who's so rude as to raise or even just openly deal with issues of religious nonsense", whereas the "militant" designation for a "militant believer" usually requires anything from real militancy to radical zeal.
 
This is the nature of bigotry.
Another example nutty militant atheism.
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 02, 2011, 06:34AM »

no, frankly I don't care if he was a Deist, athiest, RC, etc, etc, etc, and so forth and so on.

I posted it b/c of your statements about not reading stuff from a militant athiest.

so you consider him a deist not an athiest. ok with me.
It's not what I consider.  It's a historical fact that he was a diest.  Didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus, miracles, etc.  he did believe in a higher power, God.
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 02, 2011, 06:38AM »

well, now I know the true source of the Gidion Bible I find in the hotel rooms

it's the book of Gid

 Evil :D

"that's a joke, son" Foghorn Leghorn

aren't typos awful
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 02, 2011, 07:22AM »

That's as bad as the dyslexic agnostic who questioned the existence of dog... ;-)
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 02, 2011, 07:31AM »

That's as bad as the dyslexic agnostic who questioned the existence of dog... ;-)
Good one!  ;-)
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 02, 2011, 07:43AM »

glad to see that ronkny corrected his typo and he should be glad I chose not to quote it.

if I got jumped on for every typo, ------

just glad youse guys dont' do tat
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Allen
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 02, 2011, 08:08AM »

Study Explores Distrust of Atheists by Believers
(UBC Release)
 
Previously related:
U of M study finds atheists are least trusted
(the study)
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 02, 2011, 10:32AM »

2nd only to rapists regarding trust.  Eeek!  Worse than I thought.
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 03, 2011, 01:25AM »

2nd only to rapists regarding trust.  Eeek!  Worse than I thought.

I was a little disappointed by that. I guarantee that most people who know me would find me 'trustworthy', at least in the limited sense of honesty and personal integrity (I might fall short of trustworthiness in areas of remembering things promptly without being reminded, for example).

I don't talk about my lack of religion with most people for two reasons;
1) It isn't that important to me.
2) Even though I won't discriminate against another person based on his religious beliefs, he's likely to discriminate against me on the basis of my lack of them.

This poll bears out my suspicions. I've seen statements on this forum against people like myself that would seem unconscionable if they were made against Jews. The only difference between me and a Jew is that I don't practice Judaism.
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 03, 2011, 03:38AM »

I've run into this situation in my own Church.  We are part of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod

http://www.lcms.org/

ours is an evangelical church and we are tasked with the "Great Commission" to spread the "Word" according to our own talents.

Well, I have relatives who are RC, who belong to the Bahai Faith

http://www.bahai.org/

and whose religious beliefs, if any, are unknown to me.

I do not proselytize or attempt to convert anyone.  It is not my "calling" or "talent".  My attitude is not appreciated by some in my congregation.

I will talk about my religion if asked or approached, I don't approach others or start up the religious conversion talk

"Hey, Brother in Law, did you know you were going to hell if you continue to believe -----"

no, I may look that dumb but I ain't that dumb
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 03, 2011, 06:53AM »

I was a little disappointed by that. I guarantee that most people who know me would find me 'trustworthy', at least in the limited sense of honesty and personal integrity (I might fall short of trustworthiness in areas of remembering things promptly without being reminded, for example).

I don't talk about my lack of religion with most people for two reasons;
1) It isn't that important to me.
2) Even though I won't discriminate against another person based on his religious beliefs, he's likely to discriminate against me on the basis of my lack of them.

You know this isn't anything new though, man--maybe the full extent of the bigotry is, but not that it's very strong. I presume you're familiar with the '03 "Atheist As Other" study, and the implication of being an "other" ... ?
 
 
This poll bears out my suspicions. I've seen statements on this forum against people like myself that would seem unconscionable if they were made against Jews. The only difference between me and a Jew is that I don't practice Judaism.

Yup ... atheists only believe in one less god than most believers.

At least that the deal here in the West.

When believers consider why they don't believe in other gods, they should understand why atheists (and others) reject theirs. In fact even if you take two Christians, or two Muslims, or two Jews (etc) and dig, you're very likely to discover they believe in different gods. "Belief in God" is kind of a misnomer, because while most Westerners believe in one god, most don't share the same concept of that god, and many of those differences are incompatible. So there is no monolithic "theism vs. atheism" schtick, it's just comforting to many believers to think of it that way ... so there's a huge "US" vs. a tiny, anomalous, easily emotionally dismissable "them".
 
At any rate looks like this is all changing right now:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/hnn/archives/index.php?id=281&article=0
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/03/religious_belief_on_the_declin.php
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-american-religion-ARIS_N.htm
Related/on the horizon:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1388057
 
So soon, hopefully, the norm will be to recognize this form of bigotry for what it is. So the question now is; what forms of socially acceptable bigotry will be left ... ?
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 03, 2011, 08:00AM »

This must be why it seems most Brits just don't get The Crazy, or appreciate what it's like to live with it when most of those numbers are pretty much reversed or how viral and toxic it can be.

Au contraire, we get it. We understand that this aggressively acquisitive religiosity based on a local take on the Christian religion is the fashionable American madness. We see people over here who admire that, and are perfectly capable of visualising their attitudes scaled up to epidemic proportions. Some of us have even spent time in the US. We are thankful that we don't have to deal with that epidemic as close up as those who live in the US do. We are scared of what the international consequences of this nationally-contained epidemic may be. Did I miss anything?
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 03, 2011, 08:25AM »

Epidemic? 
You atheists live in a religious conspiracy world that is a myth.  Good to live in a country with less religion?  That's working out great!   Yeah, RIGHT.  the militant atheists role is to make the believers second class citizens.  It's not gonna happen.  It's worked really well in Russia too.  Thanks Marx.
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 03, 2011, 08:27AM »

Au contraire, we get it. We understand that this aggressively acquisitive religiosity based on a local take on the Christian religion is the fashionable American madness. We see people over here who admire that, and are perfectly capable of visualising their attitudes scaled up to epidemic proportions. Some of us have even spent time in the US. We are thankful that we don't have to deal with that epidemic as close up as those who live in the US do. We are scared of what the international consequences of this nationally-contained epidemic may be.

Good to know!
 
Maybe the prevalent attitude on this sort of thing is just underrepresented among those Brits who participate in here ... ? Dunno ... whatever. Good to know.
 
 
Did I miss anything?

I'd have to ask you, but I do think there's been a shift in a good direction, even if fairly slight at this point, as certain "True Colors" have been showing more than usual (or maybe for more people the resistance against noticing such things is being overwhelmed by True Colors).
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« Reply #32 on: Dec 03, 2011, 08:50AM »

http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/
And what has a decline in believers done for society?
Lack of respect, lack of morality, lack of personal responsibility, and so on.  That's something to be really proud of if you're an atheist.

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« Reply #33 on: Dec 03, 2011, 08:53AM »

http://www.alternet.org/belief/143674/are_the_%22new_atheists%22_as_bad_as_christian_fundamentalists/
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« Reply #34 on: Dec 03, 2011, 09:49AM »

Quote

From that same site, and equally pertinent here (note that Jim Jones is on both lists--it's apparently based solely upon a single quote amongst the plentiful rantings of a mad man prone toward much ranting that he counts as an atheist, but whatever).
 
There is a key difference between the villains usually paraded out against Christianity and those used against atheism, though. The Christians were all about the cause of their religion as they saw it, or they at least used that to get support from those who are easily provoked to fight for the cause of Christianity as they see it (seems a familiar pattern, somehow ... hmmm). The villainous atheists listed, on the other hand, weren't fighting for the cause of atheism (whatever that could possibly be beyond defending against anti-atheist bigotry and/or theocracy), but were simply atheists (sometimes apologists even get that little "detail" wrong--namely re: Hitler), and by that standard they could be trotted out as villains of testosterone/maleness, political and/or military power ... etc. It's not at all hard to spot the blatant problems with this criticism against atheism if you're not blinded to it. In fact you have to stretch quite a bit to see the criticism as reasonable to begin with. Criticisms against the "New Atheists" usually depend heavily upon misrepresentation. There are certainly valid criticisms, but the majority of what I've seen, aren't, and many, especially those that appeal to right Wingnuts, are pretty obviously just bigoted rantings characterized primarily by ignorance and presumption (dishonesty).
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« Reply #35 on: Dec 04, 2011, 04:38AM »

Epidemic? 

I think it's a reasonable word to use to describe the phenomenon. www.dictionary.com gives one primary meaning as "extremely prevalent; widespread". When US politicians feel that they have to use the language of US-style Christian faith in order to appeal to a larger demographic, that seems strong circumstantial evidence that the faith they wish to appeal to is indeed extremely prevalent / widespread.
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« Reply #36 on: Dec 04, 2011, 05:27AM »

I think it's a reasonable word to use to describe the phenomenon. www.dictionary.com gives one primary meaning as "extremely prevalent; widespread". When US politicians feel that they have to use the language of US-style Christian faith in order to appeal to a larger demographic, that seems strong circumstantial evidence that the faith they wish to appeal to is indeed extremely prevalent / widespread.

Yup.  Just like locusts or flu.  And just as welcome ;-)
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« Reply #37 on: Dec 04, 2011, 05:43AM »

As I have stated before, most Americans have very little understanding of the history of Christianity in the world and in America.  The popular culture understanding of the Christian faith IS uniquely American and it less than 200 years old.  It is a result of various groups on the fringes/extremes who arrived in the US because of the promise of religious freedom.  Over time the dominant/loudest voices have spread into other denominations and hijacked other religious traditions.  How can I make state statement?  Real life experience dealing with work in the church for the past 20 years, grad school, and a career change to full time ministry.  The sad thing is that most Christians of various denominations sound more Southern Baptist or Christian Fundamentalist than their own Christian faith tradition.  To me that is no surprise as those are the loudest and most polarizing voices in the American context.

Add in American Civil Religion and the typical American understanding that "Christian = patriotic & patriotic = Christian" and we have a real mess.  I believe this is the problem we are seeing in politics and what is playing out in government everywhere.

Then again... what do I know?  Amazed Amazed   
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« Reply #38 on: Dec 04, 2011, 06:07AM »

You think it's time to post 99 Theses on the door of Oral Roberts University? ;-)
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« Reply #39 on: Dec 04, 2011, 06:20AM »

You think it's time to post 99 Theses on the door of Oral Roberts University? ;-)

Did you say throw 99 pieces of feces at door??  :/
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« Reply #40 on: Dec 04, 2011, 09:11AM »

Add in American Civil Religion and the typical American understanding that "Christian = patriotic & patriotic = Christian" and we have a real mess.  I believe this is the problem we are seeing in politics and what is playing out in government everywhere.

Be careful man!
 
You're no supposed to notice that! Or at least you're not supposed to mention it if you do.
 
It makes knees all over the spectrum flail about involuntarily.
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« Reply #41 on: Dec 04, 2011, 09:53AM »

Far-right Bloggers: TLC's 'All-American Christian' Ignores Real Threat Posed By Christianity
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« Reply #42 on: Dec 04, 2011, 10:17AM »

ROTFL
Paranoid!
"That said, the threat of fundamentalist Christianity, and its ongoing attempts to rewrite American law and establish a "Christian state," are indeed real. It is not possible to dismiss the repeated acts of Christian terrorists..."
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« Reply #43 on: Dec 05, 2011, 07:51AM »

What does this indicate about intellectual integrity and honesty? What does it mean for the "culture war" and what might it have to do with the way various types of people (members of certain groups/categories) tend to think? What about the obvious implications for the "big picture" here?
 
--
 
Note:
I'd argue this belongs as much in the The Real Issue topic as it does here, but it seems maybe a bit more "squarely" Religion and Politics ... maybe.
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« Reply #44 on: Dec 08, 2011, 09:09AM »

What's wrong with this picture?
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« Reply #45 on: Dec 08, 2011, 09:43AM »


Be careful man!
 
You're no supposed to notice that! Or at least you're not supposed to mention it if you do.
 
It makes knees all over the spectrum flail about involuntarily.

And would get me booted out of this church in 2.5 seconds flat...
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« Reply #46 on: Jan 02, 2012, 01:32PM »

From the Project Reason Forum:
 
Quote from: Sandip
Here is the link: http://www.npr.org/2012/01/02/144583973/religion-front-and-center-on-2012-campaign-trail
 
The participants in the discussion considered the following ONLY "ironic" (which is ironic in itself):
 
- John F. Kennedy had to assert that his religion will not play a role in his Presidency
- And now some of the candidates in current primary are strongly asserting that their religious faith will play a big role in their politics and policies and are fighting for more religious freedom.
 
To me this is downright hypocritical.
 
One of the panelists even observed that it is OK to assert your religious views in American politics as long as you are of the RIGHT type of religion. Is this America? I am not against religious freedom which BTW includes non-religious freedom as long as that freedom is equally available to all. To me that is America.
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« Reply #47 on: Jan 03, 2012, 10:19AM »

This one seems more political to me than a good/bad thing.
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« Reply #48 on: Mar 24, 2012, 06:09PM »

It's all clear to me now!
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« Reply #49 on: Mar 24, 2012, 06:23PM »


It's as clear as a vortex!  It's hypnotic.  No wonder they follow this so mindlessly. :-P
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