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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-Chat(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Critical Thinking: Taking Honesty Seriously
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timothy42b
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« Reply #220 on: Nov 26, 2017, 06:36PM »

I have to share this link that somebody sent me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CzCDR0nv5g

I've promised I will watch the whole thing but it isn't easy. 

I think it is a good illustration of why we need more critical thinking, and why we won't get it. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #221 on: Nov 27, 2017, 02:08PM »

I think it is a good illustration of why we need more critical thinking, and why we won't get it. 
We need more of what we won't get.

Sounds... well, like a lack of critical thinking.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #222 on: Nov 27, 2017, 03:23PM »

We need more of what we won't get.
 
Sounds... well, like a lack of critical thinking.

Actually your response assumes we must inherently get what we need.
 
That's the obvious fallacy. It's called an argumentum ad consequentiam (i.e. appeal to the consequences--an argument based upon the thinking required to consider the very notion that we could need something we won't get a lack of critical thinking could also fall under also affirming the consequent and/or wishful thinking). I suspect there's more going on behind your fallacious thinking in this case though, given how traumatic this topic has been for you in the past (which also seems closely related to the same issue with equitable application of critical thinking to many religious ideologies).
 
In any case there's nothing wrong with Tim's comment.
 
For example:
 - What we needed in Northern CA during the fire storm to prevent such extreme losses
   last month was a lot more manpower and a lot more water and firefighting equipment
   than we actually got.
 - What we need to deal effectively with North Korea right now is a level-headed, well
   informed and experienced statesman in the White House, yet we clearly don't have it.
 
There's no guarantee in the real world that we'll get/have access to something just because we need it--happens all the time.
 
You could reasonably argue that it doesn't make sense to pine for something you won't get just because it would solve a problem, particularly a serious one, but that's not what you argued, and if you had it wouldn't speak to what Tim posted.
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
timothy42b
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« Reply #223 on: Nov 27, 2017, 06:46PM »

We need more of what we won't get.

Sounds... well, like a lack of critical thinking.

If you know any good way to teach critical thinking, please share it.  This seems to be a very difficult undertaking, possibly impossible. 

I suspect there are two problems illustrated in the audience response to this speaker.

One would be an absence of critical thinking as either a skill or a habit.

The other would be a lack of some basic science knowledge, a starting point for evaluating what he says.

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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #224 on: Jan 06, 2018, 11:13AM »

This has been posted in here before, but it's been a while, and it most definitely bears repetition.
 
In fact the concept can't be overstated, because it's about the basic nature of the psychology of belief--how beliefs work in the human mind. If we deal with the information reality throws at us blindly then we're more prone to fall into the traps our cognitive machinery is more subject to--we're not keeping an eye out for them. If we understand some of those traps we can keep them on our radar and maybe even find ways to manage better if we run into them. Many do prefer blindness though--it's more comfortable. You can respond in more comforting ways when you fall into a trap. But if you can teach yourself to honor sound thinking and epistemic processes (those that offer us the most accuracy rather than the most comfort) then you can shift what makes you comfortable to a significant extent--from blindly reacting to information about beliefs we've basically been issued by our socialization to understanding what our reactions really mean and how much merit those reactions have as a barometer of whta's actually real and true. Intellectual cowardice is completely natural, whereas intellectual courage only comes with practice and effort (and/or training).
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
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