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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentAccessories(Moderator: slide advantage) Effect of Leather Guards on Response
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boneuphtoner
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« on: Nov 21, 2011, 05:30PM »

I played another YBL-822G recently without protective leather guards and I could notice a definite difference between the horns with the naked horn being more responsive.  Just to make sure the difference wasn't just a difference in the horns, I took the guards off my horn.  No difference anymore!   Eeek!

Has anyone else noticed this? 

I'm fanatical about the appearance of my horns.  My logic is if I sound like crap, at least the horn can look nice while I'm doing it!   Evil Evil Evil Good! Good!

How can I keep the finish of my horns in like new condition without the leather guards?  And no, just letting it go isn't an option either!   Idea!
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 21, 2011, 05:44PM »

Interesting, I would have thought that since your hands are holding the slide braces that the leather would not further dampen the vibrations that your hands aren't already doing. Many have suggested clear nail polish, but it seems like a giant PITA to keep up with. For me, I am fanatical about the appearance, but usually my hands are covering up whatever lacer loss there is.
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 21, 2011, 07:05PM »

You played a different horn. That's where the difference came from. I use leather grips for how comfortable it makes the horn.

Plus, if you're using the leather grips to protect the horn- what's the point when it's always covered up? Do you take them off every once in a while to display?
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 21, 2011, 07:13PM »

How can I keep the finish of my horns in like new condition without the leather guards?  And no, just letting it go isn't an option either!   Idea!

If the guards are on, nobody can see whether the condition is "like new" or not.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 21, 2011, 10:00PM »

I used leather grips for years on my Bach and Shires slides, never a problem. I switched to Shires and noticed that the grips killed the horn's response and resonance. Go figure.
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 22, 2011, 06:35AM »

You can also use phone cord, pretty cheap nowadays.
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 22, 2011, 06:48AM »

I used leather grips for years on my Bach and Shires slides, never a problem. I switched to Shires and noticed that the grips killed the horn's response and resonance. Go figure.

I had the same experience.

You can do a lot for the long-term life of your lacquer by wiping off the contact points with a soft cloth every time you put the horn in the case.
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 22, 2011, 07:22AM »

I've got a 4BSS that I've played for almost 10 years with no leather guards, and I do what Gabe said. I wipe my horn off everyday after playing and there is no laquer wear what so ever. If you wipe off the acids from your hands, it can't do damage to your horn.

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« Reply #8 on: Nov 22, 2011, 07:58AM »

I had the same experience.

You can do a lot for the long-term life of your lacquer by wiping off the contact points with a soft cloth every time you put the horn in the case.
I do that as well. Also the gooseneck as it contacts my neck. when I have horns in for servicing I've gotten comments from repair guys at Dillon and at Osmun that my horns look great for their age. My King 3b is 17 years old, and saw heavy use for at least 5 years, as recently as 2007. My Bach 42T is 12 years old, and was my horn through most of college, and saw hours of playing time daily.  Eventually though, lacquer does wear due less to chemical reactions than do physical reactions with your hands. There is no way to totally eliminate lacquer wear, just like there is no way to totally eliminate scratches, swirls, dings, etc on your car, except for of course never driving it.

But, having a cloth to wipe off the contact points really helps. Microfiber clothes work very well at sucking up oils and other contaminants, and they are washable and last for quite a long time.  I am currently working on touching up some lacquer wear points on my 3b and 42T, just to keep the metal protected.
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 25, 2011, 07:30PM »

i don't see how
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 27, 2011, 02:21PM »

I believe that leather guards or other paraphernalia change your sound (smoother or darker etc) because they change the resistance of the horn. Since it is resistance, they can also change the slotting ability of the trombone. I became convinced of this by experimenting over quite a long period with a Christian Lindberg Resistance Balancer.

Even adding or removing a counterweight can have an effect. In fact, anything you add or remove from your bone changes the resistance.

Don't ask me exactly how this works. It just does. Clever
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 27, 2011, 05:52PM »

It makes sense.

Adding a counterweight makes my shires project more in the 2nd bone-bass register. Slotting in 1st bone register is a bit trickier.

I guess leather guards are the same way....who would have thought!
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 28, 2011, 06:05AM »

I go back and forth with leather grips. Sometimes I love them, and sometimes I hate them.
.
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 28, 2011, 12:10PM »

Check out a website for "As seen on TV" products.  the product that works best for me is called "Fix-it Tape".  It has no adhesive and it just sticks to itself.  I have not really put a lot of time into noticing how - if at all - it changes the characteristics of the horn, but is certainly does protect the finish.
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 28, 2011, 12:40PM »

Since this thread is about leather guards, I'm in the market for a left-hand brace leather guard for my 1062. I took off the NeoTech thing after a year, and feel like the ergonomics of the horn might be improved by a single leather guard in a strategic location (left hand main slide brace) to provide some friction to prevent my fingers from slipping on the metal.

Any suggestions between Griego/LSCO/the other options as far as which one might be easiest to put on and provide the sort of friction I seek?
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« Reply #15 on: Nov 28, 2011, 12:43PM »

I got the LSCO's because there are sizes out there for every horn. They are very slip resistant also.
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 21, 2012, 09:15AM »

I just got some and I do notice a difference. It seems less responsive or so. Not sure yet. I'll have someone listen in the next few days. I wouldn't normally mind but now that my ensemble playing consists of just playing with big bands I do need a lot of response.
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 21, 2012, 09:51AM »

Check out a website for "As seen on TV" products.  the product that works best for me is called "Fix-it Tape".  It has no adhesive and it just sticks to itself.  I have not really put a lot of time into noticing how - if at all - it changes the characteristics of the horn, but is certainly does protect the finish.

Something like this?
http://www.xtremetape.com/

It's called self vulcanizing tape.  Great for hammer handles, etc.

I wrapped a roll of it around my 42B bell years ago.  I wanted to kill the bell vibrations and hear only the air sound, like the audience does.

It made no difference at all.  Nada, zip, none. 
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 26, 2012, 03:34AM »

I ran into that recently. I got a leather neck guard and noticed the decreased response. Still not sure if its all in my head or not. It was definitely more comfortable with the guard, though.
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 30, 2012, 09:08PM »

Quite a while back I posted about using http://store.lizardskins.com/products/standard-chainstay-protector
These are neoprene and wrap around and fasten with velcro. I love it. I don't notice any tone quality difference and it keeps my neck comfortable especially in the summer. You may look funny going into a bicycle store with a trombone, but the dudes at the bike shop totally got off on this alternate use.
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