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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Santorum has won the right to his thread
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SensitiveJohn
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« Reply #140 on: Feb 20, 2012, 08:08PM »

Are you making the claim that nobody has ridiculed or attacked the faith of any of our GOP candidates?
Have you seen Romney's underwear?
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SensitiveJohn
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« Reply #141 on: Feb 20, 2012, 08:29PM »

Don't give me the Catholic interpretation.  Show me where it is in the Bible in language so clear that I don't need a tour guide.
There you go misunderstanding Catholics again.  They do not lean on literal biblical interpretations.  They wait for the church leaders to tell them how to think.  Mormons and Muslims have a similar structure.  Should they be trusted as president if they are unwilling to think for themselves and/or unpracticed at thinking for themselves?  Certainly Santorum is a slave to the will of his church leaders.  Romney, perhaps not as much.
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« Reply #142 on: Feb 20, 2012, 08:36PM »

There you go misunderstanding Catholics again.  They do not lean on literal biblical interpretations.  They wait for the church leaders to tell them how to think.
I know you are being sarcastic, it's happy hour somewhere, but the Church leaders do know more than us lay Catholics so we leave much up to them.  Kind of like an enlisted man leaves the planning to the generals.  That's why Catholicism is the largest Christian church in the world.  Those that have broken away from the Church have splintered in thousands of different sects that interpret many things differently.  Some literal and some very liberal. You can find a church that fits into your beliefs and if you can't just make one up. The Catholic Church has the longest tradition of any modern religion. It's worked, more or less, for nearly 2,000 years.
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SensitiveJohn
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« Reply #143 on: Feb 20, 2012, 08:39PM »

The Catholic Church has the longest tradition of any modern religion.
If you mean Christian religion, then yes.  Hindus and Jews have traditions that predate Jesus.
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« Reply #144 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:09PM »

I'm still waiting for someone to cite a case where a modern-day, viable candidate for a major party presidential nomination has criticized the theology of American citizens, other than Santorum. The failure of DDickerson to come through with an example suggest that none such exists.

I'm not talking about some goof-ass like David Duke or Al Sharpton, but a guy who has a chance of being nominated.

I guarantee you, if Obama accused Mormons or Catholics of 'phony theology' I would call for him to drop out of the race. Apparently Santorum's followers have lower standards.
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ronkny

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« Reply #145 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:15PM »

If you mean Christian religion, then yes.  Hindus and Jews have traditions that predate Jesus.
correct.
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« Reply #146 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:17PM »

I'm still waiting for someone to cite a case where a modern-day, viable candidate for a major party presidential nomination has criticized the theology of American citizens, other than Santorum. The failure of DDickerson to come through with an example suggest that none such exists.

I'm not talking about some goof-ass like David Duke or Al Sharpton, but a guy who has a chance of being nominated.

I guarantee you, if Obama accused Mormons or Catholics of 'phony theology' I would call for him to drop out of the race. Apparently Santorum's followers have lower standards.
So you have a problem with the word "theology". 
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« Reply #147 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:17PM »

Name a president who has attacked the Catholic Church as Obama has.
If someone else hadn't spun the 'Obama as anti-Catholic' trope, you certainly wouldn't have come up with it on your own. It's a load of BS.

Obama's crime against the Catholic Church is to require their auxiliary businesses to follow the law of the land. In this case, it's the law requiring insurance companies to cover contraception, which the great majority of Americans, including Catholics, agree with and support.

I'm not in favor of instituting Sharia or papal law in the US. Trying to find a compromise on this issue is not an attack on the Catholic church, unless you believe everything you hear.

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« Reply #148 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:19PM »

So you have a problem with the word "theology". 

No, I have a problem with a major Presidential candidate specifically criticizing the religious beliefs of an opponent, and of his co-religionists. The reason you're dancing around so much is that you can't provide the example I asked for.
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« Reply #149 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:22PM »

If someone else hadn't spun the 'Obama as anti-Catholic' trope, you certainly wouldn't have come up with it on your own. It's a load of BS.

Obama's crime against the Catholic Church is to require them to follow the law of the land. In this case, it's the law requiring insurance companies to cover contraception, which the great majority of Americans, including Catholics, agree with and support.

I'm not in favor of instituting Sharia or papal law in the US. Trying to find a compromise on this issue is not an attack on the Catholic church, unless you believe everything you hear.


"If someone else hadn't spun the 'Obama as anti-Catholic' trope, you certainly wouldn't have come up with it on your own. It's a load of BS."
Sure.  Whatever you say.
Except religious institutions are exempt from other laws like taxes so your "law of the land" argument  holds no water.
Umm yes it is an attack on the Church since (From the Wall Street Journal);
"In their later statement, they said they still had "serious moral concerns," noting that the proposal didn't contain provisions for religious employers who self-insure, meaning the employer takes on the underlying risk of covering employees' health care.

The bishops also said that the current structure of the proposal meant that if an employee and insurer agreed to add contraception coverage to a health plan, it would still be financed in the same way as the rest of the coverage offered by the employer."
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« Reply #150 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:23PM »

No, I have a problem with a major Presidential candidate specifically criticizing the religious beliefs of an opponent, and of his co-religionists. The reason you're dancing around so much is that you can't provide the example I asked for.
I did and you just did yourself.
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« Reply #151 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:24PM »

"If someone else hadn't spun the 'Obama as anti-Catholic' trope, you certainly wouldn't have come up with it on your own. It's a load of BS."
Sure.  Whatever you say.
Except religious institutions are exempt from other laws like taxes so your "law of the land" argument  holds no water.

I own a business and have to treat employees fairly, regardless of their religion and my own. Catholics aren't exempt from that law.
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« Reply #152 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:26PM »

I did and you just did yourself.

Name the candidate, and quote the statement. It's easy.

You're still dancing.
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« Reply #153 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:28PM »

Name the candidate, and quote the statement. It's easy.

You're still dancing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203646004577217181415407806.html
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« Reply #154 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:29PM »

I own a business and have to treat employees fairly, regardless of their religion and my own. Catholics aren't exempt from that law.
1st amendment.  Religious institutions are exempt from several laws.
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« Reply #155 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:33PM »

Look, I asked someone to find a modern-day example of a viable contender for a major party nomination who criticized the theology of an opponent and his fellow church-goers.

You've provided an example where leaders of one church have disagreed with public policy, of which there are thousands of examples.

Give me an example that's parallel to Santorum, where he tells the people he proposes to govern that their religious beliefs are 'phony.'
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« Reply #156 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:36PM »

Look, I asked someone to find a precedent for a modern-day example of a viable contender for a major party nomination who criticized the theology of an opponent and his fellow church-goers.

You've provided an example where leaders of one church have disagreed with public policy, of which there are thousands of examples.

Give me an example that's parallel to Santorum, where he tells the people he proposes to govern that their religious beliefs are 'phony.'
Reply #124 This is what you asked;
"I asked you to name a serious, recent candidate for the Presidency, from either party, who had criticized an opponent's religious beliefs and the beliefs of his co-religionists. " 
ie; birth control.
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« Reply #157 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:37PM »

1st amendment.  Religious institutions are exempt from several laws.

That's a tricky point of law, and subject to compromise. For instance, I can't just join a church that claims marijuana as a sacrament and use it with impunity.
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« Reply #158 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:37PM »

Reply #124 This is what you asked;
"I asked you to name a serious, recent candidate for the Presidency, from either party, who had criticized an opponent's religious beliefs and the beliefs of his co-religionists. " 
ie; birth control.

Name the candidate, and show the quote. You're losing, buddy.
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« Reply #159 on: Feb 20, 2012, 09:38PM »

That's a tricky point of law, and subject to compromise. For instance, I can't just join a church that claims marijuana as a sacrament and use it with impunity.
Obama's compromise is no compromise.  As the WS article states.
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Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
Ronald Reagan
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