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[Trombone player 14]

would learning all 12 of my major , 12 minor, 12 harmonic minor,and 12 melodic minor scales be worth tryin to doo

[vegasbound]

Sorry to say but yes, they are a must!
 

[datguy]

If you intend to pursue music then you
will know them. They are indispensable.

[David Schwartz]

would learning all 12 of my major , 12 minor, 12 harmonic minor,and 12 melodic minor scales be worth tryin to doo

That's exactly the menu in my little play-along book-with-CD.  When you practice all the scale movement patterns, much more of your conscious attention can be applied to the musical environment rather than the mechanics of playing.  You'll become a better sight reader, a better ensemble musician, and your intonation will improve dramatically.  Go for it!

[stutzand]

would learning all 12 of my major , 12 minor, 12 harmonic minor,and 12 melodic minor scales be worth tryin to doo

Then work on playing those scales in patterns of 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths and 7ths! Beyond that, start working on the modes! Then the blues scales! The whole tone scales!

It's endless! Get started now! And don't just stop working on them when you learn them the first time! Play every scale at least once a week. Work them into your long tones and articulation studies!

[Exzaclee]

Working all your scales throughout the entire range of your horn in as many possible combinations and patterns as you can imagine (see above posts... and Sam Burtis's postings to that effect) will not just make you a more facile player, it'll make you a better sight-reader.  It'll make your ears better.  It'll make every aspect of your musicianship better than it was before.

Just don't practice them blindly.  LISTEN.  If you can play it, you should be able to sing it... and know what it sounds like when you see it on a page before you play it.  This is where the true benefit of scalar practice comes into play.  Many musicians make the mistake of practicing scales solely for the technical benefits.  Don't be that guy

[Bob Riddle]

I agree with Exzaclee on practicing and listening to yourself when playing scales.I've been practicing them for  many years in all kind of patterns and I still don't feel I know them well enough.Don't forget to practice chromatics also they are great on trombone for finding out how accurate you are with your positions.
Bob

[Thomas Matta]

would learning all 12 of my major , 12 minor, 12 harmonic minor,and 12 melodic minor scales be worth tryin to doo

Only if you enjoy playing the trombone well.

[ParLawGod]

Definitely worth it!

[timothy42b]

I vote yes on this one.  See also a recent thread on scales.

I think that technique comes more from specific memorized patterns than we realize. 

Slide motion, for example, can be practiced a lot of ways.  But there might not be one skill called slide technique.  There probably are 48 skills that need to be learned separately, with some carryover but maybe not as much as we think. 

If there's anything to this theory, there is an implication for the order of practice.  We need to learn them all.  But we should learn the common scales first, in the four variations;  and we should work on each long enough to learn it really thoroughly rather than sort of learning all 48. 

[actikid]

There are not 12 major scales. There is only one. A scale is nothing more than an agreed sequence of intervals based on an arbitrary starting note. The goal is to have the skill to play ANY sequence of intervals from ANY starting note.

Those 48programs exercises you mentioned are a good starting point.

[timothy42b]

There are not 12 major scales. There is only one.

WWHWWWH!

But, in terms of execution, they might as well be very very different.  I think there is less skill transfer from fragment to fragment than is commonly thought. 

[actikid]

But, in terms of execution, they might as well be very very different.

Yes.  And certainly some of them are mechanically more awkward, but most of the difficulty lies in familiarity.  If we learned the instrument playing in nothing but the key of B, it would "sit on the instrument" better than Bb.

And as far as the idea of scales versus intervals, going from E to F# is exactly the same whether it is within an E major scale, a G major scale, an F# mixolydian or whatever context.  It is still a whole step, second to 5th position (ignoring some of the just intonation minutia).

[timothy42b]

And as far as the idea of scales versus intervals, going from E to F# is exactly the same whether it is within an E major scale, a G major scale, an F# mixolydian or whatever context.  It is still a whole step, second to 5th position (ignoring some of the just intonation minutia).

Yes, I agree.  Two note fragments are as close to transferable (generalizable) scale fragments as you can get, I think.  But I also think that much technique consists of memorizing and overlearning the larger fragments, three four five and six note runs, and for those it is easier to learn them in scale contexts than simply every possible mathematical combination. 

[actikid]

Yes, I agree.  Two note fragments are as close to transferable (generalizable) scale fragments as you can get, I think.  But I also think that much technique consists of memorizing and overlearning the larger fragments, three four five and six note runs, and for those it is easier to learn them in scale contexts than simply every possible mathematical combination. 

I agree, as long as people understand that "too much" muscle memory can hurt more than it helps.  Kenny G has wonderful muscle memory.  So much so that you know exactly what he is going to play before he gets to the third note in the lick.  But it is certainly true that most people err on the side of too little practice on these things.

[digitaltrombone]

No way around that! You should try playing all the scales starting on all notes within it - that will increase th number to 336 scales, but you will slowly begin to find your way around with that slide really good!

[Matt K]

There are not 12 major scales. There is only one. A scale is nothing more than an agreed sequence of intervals based on an arbitrary starting note. The goal is to have the skill to play ANY sequence of intervals from ANY starting note.

Those 48programs exercises you mentioned are a good starting point.

Well if you want to get into semantics:

There are 12 major scales because there are twelve unique pitches that have been "agreed upon" so to speak, so they are not arbitrary. 

Further, each interval is a different distance from another pitch because as notes 'ascend' or 'descend' the frequency change is exponential, not additive. IE, A=440, 220, 110, etc. So using the definition that a sequence of intervals from a starting note constitutes a scale, each different octave of each major scale would be unique. Meaning there would be an infinite number of scales.

Plus, if you want to get into the music theory side of things, what about enharmonic equivalents? Is the key of D sharp, a key of 9 sharps, different than Eb?

I'm happy saying there are 12 major scales.

[Matt K]

I agree, as long as people understand that "too much" muscle memory can hurt more than it helps.  Kenny G has wonderful muscle memory.  So much so that you know exactly what he is going to play before he gets to the third note in the lick.  But it is certainly true that most people err on the side of too little practice on these things.

I don't know who to give credit for saying this but I'm almost certain I got this from someone on the forum:

Practice does not make perfect.  Practice makes permanent. If you are practicing "bad" habits, then doing more of that will be reinforce the behavior.

J.J. Johnson also had a bunch of licks that he had in his muscle memory. You can tell what he's going to do before he does it, if you listen to him long enough. Do I still like J.J.? You bet.

Muscle memory is what you put into it. If you practice poorly, you'll get poor results.

GIGO - Garbage in, garbage out.