next »

[Russ White]

http://jezebel.com/5886102/law-forcing-abortion-seekers-to-have-vaginal-probe-totally-ok-since-theyve-already-been-penetrated

Small government, my ass!!! Virginia is on the verge of passing a law which requires a woman seeking to exercise her rights under the constitution to be forcefully vaginally pentrated before she can access reproductive health care. In any other situation, this would be considered rape. If the governor of Va. signs this law, he is signing his resignation letter from political life. He has been listed as a possible VP candidate. I can see the bumper stickers now: "Romney/ Rapist 2012," "Republican Ticket: Man on Dog/ The Rapist: 2012." God spare us from zealotry!!!

[ddickerson]

http://jezebel.com/5886102/law-forcing-abortion-seekers-to-have-vaginal-probe-totally-ok-since-theyve-already-been-penetrated

Small government, my ass!!! Virginia is on the verge of passing a law which requires a woman seeking to exercise her rights under the constitution to be forcefully vaginally pentrated before she can access reproductive health care. In any other situation, this would be considered rape. If the governor of Va. signs this law, he is signing his resignation letter from political life. He has been listed as a possible VP candidate. I can see the bumper stickers now: "Romney/ Rapist 2012," "Republican Ticket: Man on Dog/ The Rapist: 2012." God spare us from zealotry!!!

Did you approve of the TSA raping people in order fly? I don't remember.

[Russ White]

Did you approve of the TSA raping people in order fly? I don't remember.

Um, no, I did and do not, and that is merely assault. It doesn't quite rise to the level of full blown state imposed rape.

[ddickerson]

Um, no, I did and do not, and that is merely assault. It doesn't quite rise to the level of full blown state imposed rape.

You mean 'merely sexual assault'?

[sly fox]

had problem linking to original article, here is their source:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason.single.html

the procedure does require an bodily invasion, which, with a jury deciding the improper intent being present could under modern sexual assault definitions would constitute "sexual assault".

since this is only required in the first trimester, it is another deliberate attempt, see "personhood" laws, for another to force a judicial review of Roe v. Wade.

since DD brought it up, no example of search by the TSA or other law enforcement agencies, short of a body cavity search comes close.

come on dd, bring us examples of complaints of the TSA or other law enforcement agencies doing a body cavity search.

some of us are waiting, some of us aren't, others are bored already.

jmvho, ymmv

[ddickerson]

Sly, does there haave to be a 'cavity penetration' to define sexual assault? Or, are there other criteria? Just asking.....

[RedHotMama]

Aaaah, America. Land of the Free....

[ddickerson]

Aaaah, America. Land of the Free....

Yes, America is kinda loopy right now. Regarding abortions, the 'loss of freedoms' gets tossed around a lot whereas regarding almost all other issues, ...... not so much. At least by the very same people.....
Yes, we are very loopy.
 

[ronkny]

NEWS FLASH
Abortions done after nine weeks require vaginal penetration.  Done before 9 weeks may not require penetration.
BTW "exercising your reproductive rights is a pc way of saying abortion.  When did the word abortion lose favor?

[BGuttman]

NEWS FLASH
...  When did the word abortion lose favor?

When Yahoos like you started treating it like it was a crime against your manhood

[ronkny]

When Yahoos like you started treating it like it was a crime against your manhood

Crime against my manhood?     no, it's just killing an innocent human being. 

[RedHotMama]

no, it's just killing an innocent human being. 

No, it's just removing a blob of unwanted tissue.

[BGuttman]

Crime against my manhood?     no, it's just killing an innocent human being. 

OK.  So we should make removing a cancer tumor a crime.  After all, it has as much sentinence as a blastocyst.

If you want to enforce a one-child policy with abortion like in China, I might take that seriously.  No.  You are just being a busybody.

[Baron von Bone]

OK.  So we should make removing a cancer tumor a crime.  After all, it has as much sentinence as a blastocyst.
 
If you want to enforce a one-child policy with abortion like in China, I might take that seriously.  No.  You are just being a busybody.

Not to mention a huge number of pregnancies are naturally aborted (by God if you believe there's a god and it's responsible for the creation of nature). Anti-abortion fanatics never seem to want to address that little detail. Hell, I don't think I've seen or heard any of them even acknowledge it.

[ddickerson]

No, it's just removing a blob of unwanted tissue.

I know some people that are still a 'blob of unwanted tissue'. 

[sly fox]

Sly, does there haave to be a 'cavity penetration' to define sexual assault? Or, are there other criteria? Just asking.....

you asked:

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32369#1

Definition
Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent. Some types of sexual acts which fall under the category of sexual assault include forced sexual intercourse (rape), sodomy (oral or anal sexual acts), child molestation, incest, fondling and attempted rape. Sexual assault in any form is often a devastating crime. Assailants can be strangers, acquaintances, friends, or family members. Assailants commit sexual assault by way of violence, threats, coercion, manipulation, pressure or tricks. Whatever the circumstances, no one asks or deserves to be sexually assaulted.

Overview
In most jurisdictions, the term sexual assault has replaced the term rape in the state statutes. This was done to be more gender-neutral and to cover more specific types of sexual victimization and various levels of coercion. For example, some state codes define Sexual Assault in the First Degree or Aggravated Sexual Assault as physically or psychologically forced vaginal, anal or oral penetration - which has typically been thought of as rape.

Sexual Abuse, Sexual Misconduct, Sodomy, Lascivious Acts, Indecent Contact, and Indecent Exposure are all examples of possible sexual assault charges. Basically, almost any sexual behavior a person has not consented to that causes that person to feel uncomfortable, frightened or intimidated is included in the sexual assault category.

The law generally assumes that a person does not consent to sexual conduct if he or she is forced, threatened or is unconscious, drugged, a minor, developmentally disabled, chronically mentally ill, or believe they are undergoing a medical procedure. Some examples of sexual assault include:

Someone putting their finger, tongue, mouth, penis or an object in or on your vagina, penis or anus when you don't want them to;
Someone touching, fondling, kissing or making any unwanted contact with your body;
Someone forcing you to perform oral sex or forcing you to receive oral sex;
Someone forcing you to masturbate, forcing you to masturbate them, or fondling and touching you;
Someone forcing you to look at sexually explicit material or forcing you to pose for sexually explicit pictures; and
A doctor, nurse, or other health care professional giving you an unnecessary internal examination or touching your sexual organs in an unprofessional, unwarranted and inappropriate manner.

the above definition seems to leave out an important element of the criminal laws that I am familar with:  the necessary intent of the actor to either arouse his/her sexual desires or the sexual desires of the victim.

this is what would make the actions of the TSA agent, the leo personnel exempt from the crime of attempted sexual assault and perhaps the procedure of the medical personel under the original item in question, would a jury find that such an intent existed?  If not, there is no crime.

[ronkny]

Not to mention a huge number of pregnancies are naturally aborted (by God if you believe there's a god and it's responsible for the creation of nature). Anti-abortion fanatics never seem to want to address that little detail. Hell, I don't think I've seen or heard any of them even acknowledge it.

Umm.  Whats there to address?  Spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) happen all the time.  It's perfectly normal.  Sometimes for a reason and sometimes the reason is unknown.    

[ronkny]

No, it's just removing a blob of unwanted tissue.

I thought you were a scientist?  That blob has DNA specific DNA that will allow the blob to differentiate into a human being.  The blastocyst becomes an embryo after it is implanted into the uterus?  Now the blob is differentiating as the different cells now take on different functions.  By 5 weeks the brain, spinal cord, digestive tract and heart begin to develop.   At 8 weeks there are arms legs and fingers and lungs are staring to develop.  10 weeks facial features.  Baby is moving and sucking at weeks 15-18. 
So women are to think of the baby in their belly as a blob?  Makes it easier to dispose of? Like a bad piece of meat in the frig.  Nice.

[ronkny]

OK.  So we should make removing a cancer tumor a crime.  After all, it has as much sentinence as a blastocyst.

If you want to enforce a one-child policy with abortion like in China, I might take that seriously.  No.  You are just being a busybody.

So a cancerous tumor has potential to become a ...what?
One child policy?  Not me.

[BGuttman]

I thought you were a scientist?  That blob has DNA specific DNA that will allow the blob to differentiate into a human being.  The blastocyst becomes an embryo after it is implanted into the uterus?  Now the blob is differentiating as the different cells now take on different functions.  By 5 weeks the brain, spinal cord, digestive tract and heart begin to develop.   At 8 weeks there are arms legs and fingers and lungs are staring to develop.  10 weeks facial features.  Baby is moving and sucking at weeks 15-18. 
So women are to think of the baby in their belly as a blob?  Makes it easier to dispose of? Like a bad piece of meat in the frig.  Nice.

I call Red Herring.

First, the cancer cell has DNA also.  If I were clever, I might be able to clone a human from it.

Also, it's generally accepted that abortion after the first trimester (i.e. 12 weeks) is not covered under Roe v. Wade.  In fact, most abortions occur during this period (first trimester).  Abortions like Partial Birth, etc. are extremely rare and only performed when the fetus is not viable and is a danger to the mother.

The most common form of abortion is Dilatation and Curetage (D and C).  It is intended to remove a blastocyst or other large lump as opposed to cutting somebody out, grabbing a fully formed baby, and drowning it in a pot of water (which is what all of you seem to think it is).