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[SensitiveJohn]

It seems like Romney is from everywhere that is having a Republican primary or caucus this year.  Is this his way of avoiding the issues?

You know, we’ve been to Massachusetts. I love the ocean, too, I do love the ocean, but there’s something special about lakes, where you don’t get salt on you after you’ve been swimming, where there’s no seaweed, where you don’t have to worry about things eating you in the water.

[BGuttman]

Personally, I'm convinced he's from another planet   If true, he's not eligible to run for President

I think his Birth Certificate is from Michigan, where his father was an executive with GM and later Governor of the state.

Note that there are a lot of Romneys living in Mexico where they went to avoid the laws against multiple wives for Mormons in the last part of the 19th century.  In order to gain admission to the Union, Utah had to enact a law against polygamy.  This affected the Mormons.

[SensitiveJohn]

Just because Romney is a Mormon, doesn't make him party to polygamy.  He's only had one wife.  Gingrich, a Roman Catholic, has three.

Romeny's great grandfathers were polygamists.  Obama's father was a bigamist.

[BGuttman]

The United States Mormon Church (Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) formally renounced polygamy as part of the effort of Utah to join the United States.  The Romneys in Mexico still practice polygamy.  There are other sects of Mormonism that try to keep polygamy, but they have to call the "extra" wives something else.

George Romney and Mitt Romney were both monogamous.

I see you have allowed me to vote

[ronkny]

Just because Romney is a Mormon, doesn't make him party to polygamy.  He's only had one wife.  Gingrich, a Roman Catholic, has three.

Romeny's great grandfathers were polygamists.  Obama's father was a bigamist.

Gingrich was not born and raised RC. Was not RC with the previous wives.

[actikid]

Apart from polygamy, the LDS church has all sorts of other beliefs that seem even more insane than the average religious dogma.  I won't get into that litany here because it is easy to look up.  I would put them in the tier with Scientology.  That would be bizarre cult level 5, whereas fundamentalist Christianity is at BCL4, those few Christians who actually follow the Bible are at BCL3, Judaism (not counting the ultra-orthodox) is BCL2 along with various other religions that don't have a particular folk hero/martyr. 

The point I'm getting to is that while Romney gave a substantial percentage of his wealth to deductible organizations, this was almost entirely a gift to the LDS.  It is a free country, but we must understand that these people are really out there on the fringes of insanity, and they put this money to work trying to repress the rest of us.  They don't put that money into soup kitchens and Habitat for humanity projects, I'll bet.

It is fundamentally wrong that a guy can get a huge tax advantage by giving money to an organization that then spends it on a political campaign to harass gays in California.  That type of stuff should not be tax deductible.

[ronkny]

Apart from polygamy, the LDS church has all sorts of other beliefs that seem even more insane than the average religious dogma.  I won't get into that litany here because it is easy to look up.  I would put them in the tier with Scientology.  That would be bizarre cult level 5, whereas fundamentalist Christianity is at BCL4, those few Christians who actually follow the Bible are at BCL3, Judaism (not counting the ultra-orthodox) is BCL2 along with various other religions that don't have a particular folk hero/martyr. 

The point I'm getting to is that while Romney gave a substantial percentage of his wealth to deductible organizations, this was almost entirely a gift to the LDS.  It is a free country, but we must understand that these people are really out there on the fringes of insanity, and they put this money to work trying to repress the rest of us.  They don't put that money into soup kitchens and Habitat for humanity projects, I'll bet.

It is fundamentally wrong that a guy can get a huge tax advantage by giving money to an organization that then spends it on a political campaign to harass gays in California.  That type of stuff should not be tax deductible.

So it is necessary to donate to soup kitchens and habitat for humanity to be eligible for actikids blessing? 
"I'll bet"?  So you're guessing, haphazardly with a bias tinged with mockery and hate.   

[BGuttman]

I think actikid is referring to the fact that the LDS Church spends a lot of money on proselytizing missions trying to convert people to their Church.  Including post-mortem baptisms of Holocaust victims.

To some extent Catholics do this as well, but primarily in areas where there are much less formalized religions (like in Africa, on American Indian reservations, Southeast Asia, and Oceania).

If the LDS Church spent more of their money on things like soup kitchens and other public assistance efforts, I'd bet actikid would be more sanguine.

[ronkny]

I think actikid is referring to the fact that the LDS Church spends a lot of money on proselytizing missions trying to convert people to their Church.  Including post-mortem baptisms of Holocaust victims.

To some extent Catholics do this as well, but primarily in areas where there are much less formalized religions (like in Africa, on American Indian reservations, Southeast Asia, and Oceania).

If the LDS Church spent more of their money on things like soup kitchens and other public assistance efforts, I'd bet actikid would be more sanguine.

Do they or don't they?  I don t know so I would withhold my judgement on their charitable giving.

[actikid]

If the LDS Church spent more of their money on things like soup kitchens and other public assistance efforts, I'd bet actikid would be more sanguine.

Possibly.  The issue I was raising is twofold:

1) Romney's supposed philanthropy which is, in fact, just giving a huge sum of money to a hate-filled cult that spends much of that money on political campaigns to try to roll back the rights of others.

2) The tax destructibility of this.  I definitely agree that charitable acts performed by religious institutions should enjoy tax benefits.  But when you give money to a a group that calls itself a religion for tax purposes, but in fact channels a lot of that money into political efforts, that should not enjoy any tax privileges.

http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_prop8_section1.html

[ronkny]

Possibly.  The issue I was raising is twofold:

1) Romney's supposed philanthropy which is, in fact, just giving a huge sum of money to a hate-filled cult that spends much of that money on political campaigns to try to roll back the rights of others.

2) The tax destructibility of this.  I definitely agree that charitable acts performed by religious institutions should enjoy tax benefits.  But when you give money to a a group that calls itself a religion for tax purposes, but in fact channels a lot of that money into political efforts, that should not enjoy any tax privileges.

http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_prop8_section1.html

Hate filled cult?  They're not atheists nor are they radical Muslims.  So why is the Mormon church a hate filed cult?  Btw I am not a Mormon and I don't believe them to be Christian.  (I've it explained this before so let's not go there again regarding Christianity and Mormonism).
Once again your posts show no evidence.
What is the percentage that goes to political efforts?

[actikid]

So why is the Mormon church a hate filed cult? 

They are a cult in my book.  To some degree, all religions are cults, but the Mormon faith is way past the cult line as far as I'm concerned.  No gray area on that, or with the Scientologists.  They are kooks founded by a kook in both cases.

As far as the hate factor, anybody who would would tell a loving couple they don't have the same financial and legal rights as others in our society is operating purely on hate.  I would point out that Jesus never said a work about homosexuality, as least not a word of that was recorded in the Bible, attributed to Jesus.

I don't know what portion goes to political hate campaigns versus soup kitchens or support of the Tabernacle Choir.  Doesn't matter to me.  None of the political action should enjoy any tax benefit that is otherwise available to religious activities.

I'm not singling out the Mormons as the only haters out there.  Mr. Santorum is doing a fine job of making if clear there are plenty of haters all across the Jesus spectrum.

[ddickerson]

I would point out that Jesus never said a work about homosexuality, as least not a word of that was recorded in the Bible, attributed to Jesus.

So, do you believe Jesus when He says that He is the only way to salvation? Just curious.....

[ronkny]

They are a cult in my book.  To some degree, all religions are cults, but the Mormon faith is way past the cult line as far as I'm concerned.  No gray area on that, or with the Scientologists.  They are kooks founded by a kook in both cases.

As far as the hate factor, anybody who would would tell a loving couple they don't have the same financial and legal rights as others in our society is operating purely on hate.  I would point out that Jesus never said a work about homosexuality, as least not a word of that was recorded in the Bible, attributed to Jesus.

I don't know what portion goes to political hate campaigns versus soup kitchens or support of the Tabernacle Choir.  Doesn't matter to me.  None of the political action should enjoy any tax benefit that is otherwise available to religious activities.

I'm not singling out the Mormons as the only haters out there.  Mr. Santorum is doing a fine job of making if clear there are plenty of haters all across the Jesus spectrum.
[/They are a cult in my book.  To some degree, all religions are cults, but the Mormon faith is way past the cult line as far as I'm concerned.  No gray area on that, or with the Scientologists.  They are kooks founded by a kook in both cases.]  They may be a cult.  However I am not familiar with your "book".  Kooks?  I know some mormons and I don't think they are kooks.  What makes them kooks?  Yes I think Joseph Smith may be a kook but I have not studied mormonism as much as you have.

[/As far as the hate factor, anybody who would would tell a loving couple they don't have the same financial and legal rights as others in our society is operating purely on hate.  I would point out that Jesus never said a work about homosexuality, as least not a word of that was recorded in the Bible, attributed to Jesus.]  Who said what? 

[/I don't know what portion goes to political hate campaigns versus soup kitchens or support of the Tabernacle Choir.  Doesn't matter to me.  None of the political action should enjoy any tax benefit that is otherwise available to religious activities.]  Political hate campaigns?  Like moveon.org?  media matters?  Mormons don't contribute to those organizations.  Doesn't matter to you?  You're the one who brought them up.
You tend to throw things out there hoping no one will call you on your hate filled fantasies.  Why?

[SensitiveJohn]

Gingrich was not born and raised RC. Was not RC with the previous wives.

Cheating on the previous wives was wrong when he wasn't Roman Catholic too.

[ronkny]

Cheating on the previous wives was wrong when he wasn't Roman Catholic too.

Correct. You did say,"Gingrich, a  Roman Catholic, has three" which is incorrect.

[BGuttman]

Polygamy is simultaneous marriage, not sequential.  Newt had/has 3 wives, but only one at a time.

The issue is that he was cheating on each of the 1st two (and maybe this one as well, who knows? ).

And I wouldn't care about the cheating if he didn't come out for "Family Values" (i.e. don't do as I do).

The current crop of religious fanatic candidates remind me of Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry.

[actikid]

So, do you believe Jesus when He says that He is the only way to salvation? Just curious.....

Well, no.  I don't believe in the idea of gods and spirits invisibly hanging out offering some of us "salvation", but not others, according to a complex, arbitrary set of rules defined by thousands of different religious enterprises over the millennia -- with all of those rules coincidentally benefiting the enterprises.

Do I believe Jesus was a real person?  Could be.  Doesn't matter to me.

Do I believe he said that?  Sure.  I believe David Koresh and Jim Jones talked likewise.

But it isn't a question of what I believe.  Santorum and Romney both claim to be followers of Jesus and adherents to the Bible as "the true word".  But they just don't act much like it.

[actikid]

Cheating on the previous wives was wrong when he wasn't Roman Catholic too.

I've decided to give up my dream of being an NFL running back, now that I'm 57 and never actually played football anyway.

Very convenient for Gingrich to decide he's a changed man -- this late in life. 

[actikid]

The issue is that he was cheating on each of the 1st two (and maybe this one as well, who knows? ).

Cheating on wives is par for the course.  He has lots of company there.  What sets this guy apart, making him lower than pond scum, is when and how he did this -- in two cases where wives were seriously ill.

I don't believe that gays can be "reformed".  I don't believe a person as immoral as Gingrich can be reformed, just by saying he is now a true Catholic.

It is like AA.  Any recovered alcoholic will tell you the best you can hope for is discipline in your behaviors to not drink.  You cannot ever overcome who you are.  Gingrich will be pond scum every day he continues to suck in oxygen.  He may control his behaviors, but nothing more.

[SensitiveJohn]

He may control his behaviors, but nothing more.

We're all like that.  People can and do change, but I don't think that Gingrich has.  The way he has talked about the second marriage and refuting what the first wife said, leads me to believe that doesn't have personal integrity on this issue yet.  And, then there is claiming that he is more conservative than Romney, when he was just as moderate, and appealing to the Reagan worshipers is rather disgusting too, and not at all factual; so I don't think that he has integrity at all.

[djdekok]

Personally, I'm convinced he's from another planet   If true, he's not eligible to run for President

I think his Birth Certificate is from Michigan, where his father was an executive with GM and later Governor of the state.

Note that there are a lot of Romneys living in Mexico where they went to avoid the laws against multiple wives for Mormons in the last part of the 19th century.  In order to gain admission to the Union, Utah had to enact a law against polygamy.  This affected the Mormons.

That's accurate, Bruce, and the "lot of Romneys living in Mexico" apparently included Mitt's grand- or great-grandfather.
What a mess the GOP race is this year.  I thought for a while that the presidency would be Romney's to lose, but the evangelical fundamentalist branch of the GOP has become the proverbial tale wagging the dog, and given the choice between a Mormon (Romney) and a Catholic (Santorum), they're holding their nose and choosing Santorum--which will almost guarantee four more years of Obamanation. God help us all.

[actikid]

And, then there is claiming that he is more conservative than Romney, when he was just as moderate, and appealing to the Reagan worshipers is rather disgusting too, and not at all factual; so I don't think that he has integrity at all.

I don't know what words like "conservative" and "moderate" mean.

Is it conservative to turn the previously regulated telecom industry into basically a cabal of thieves that are able to engage in price-fixing with practically no limits on their activities, while blocking true competition in the industry by allowing a tiny handful of giant companies to control all the wireless bandwidth?  That isn't conservative or liberal.  It is criminal.  It is anti-American.  It is anti-free market.

Is it conservative to prowl around looking for companies to take over on the cheap and then put them through bankruptcy, turning a huge personal profit while destroying the companies and the lives of thousands of workers?  That isn't conservative or liberal.  It is evil.  It is wrong.  Americans should not allow that.