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Author Topic: Paying Attention, America?  (Read 20886 times)
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actikid
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« Reply #220 on: Apr 01, 2012, 07:10PM »

One thing we should not overlook, regardless of where one stands on the political spectrum, is that BUSH II added loads of GOVERNMENT jobs with the off-budget expansion of our Pentagon budget.  And a great deal of the economic activity resulting from that "American employment" was actually spent in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Kuwait. 

During Bush's 8 years, total employment (including all this money flowing overseas, went from 131.5M to 129.7M

And of course, it was even worse if you look only at private sector employment.

Facts are troublesome things.
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« Reply #221 on: Apr 01, 2012, 07:55PM »


 until Barney Frank and Chris Dodd


And, once again we see the Kool-aid induced fog of cheap labor conservatism rear it's ugly head. I assume you mean the Democrats Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. The ones who were minority members of committees controlled by Republican majorities, in a House and Senate controlled by Republican Majorities, meaning it was a Congress controlled by a Republican majority, under an executive branch controlled by a Republican President. That Barney Frank and Chris Dodd? I am continually amazed at the amount of spin, misinformation, and outright lies those on the right are willing to accept from those who pull their strings. It's no wonder they had no problem with a doctor being protected, by law, if he intentionally lied to his patients.
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« Reply #222 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:05PM »

There's certainly a lot of GW Bush amnesia going around these days.

It's called "revisionist history", and has been a weapon the "cheap labor conservatives" have always used against the rest of us in the class war they've waged against us since before Confucius.
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« Reply #223 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:17PM »

The Koch brothers employ 70,000. They have fortunes estimated at $70 Billion. That is $1,000,000 for each employee. If that doesn't constitute the " do what he pleases with the labor of others", what possibly could? The Kochs, and their ilk, are the wolf Lincoln was referencing, and I want my government to protect me against their predation.
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« Reply #224 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:21PM »

The Koch brothers employ 70,000. They have fortunes estimated at $70 Billion. That is $1,000,000 for each employee. If that doesn't constitute the " do what he pleases with the labor of others", what possibly could? The Kochs, and their ilk, are the wolf Lincoln was referencing, and I want my government to protect me against their predation.
So the Koch brothers are hunting you? For what purpose?  How do they harm you?
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« Reply #225 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:27PM »

It's called "revisionist history", and has been a weapon the "cheap labor conservatives" have always used against the rest of us in the class war they've waged against us since before Confucius.
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/who-caused-the-economic-crisis/
The McCain-Palin campaign fired back with an ad laying blame on Democrats and Obama. Titled "Rein," it highlights McCain’s 2006 attempt to "rein in Fannie and Freddie." The ad accurately quotes the Washington Post as saying "Washington failed to rein in" the two government-sponsored entities, the Federal National Mortgage Association ("Fannie Mae") and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation ("Freddie Mac"), both of which ran into trouble by underwriting too many risky home mortgages to buyers who have been unable to repay them. The ad then blames Democrats for blocking McCain’s reforms. As evidence, it even offers a snippet of an interview in which former President Clinton agrees that "the responsibility that the Democrats have" might lie in resisting his own efforts to "tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." We’re then told that the crisis "didn’t have to happen."

It’s true that key Democrats opposed the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have established a single, independent regulatory body with jurisdiction over Fannie and Freddie – a move that the Government Accountability Office had recommended in a 2004 report. Current House Banking Committee chairman Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts opposed legislation to reorganize oversight in 2000 (when Clinton was still president), 2003 and 2004, saying of the 2000 legislation that concern about Fannie and Freddie was "overblown." Just last summer, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd called a Bush proposal for an independent agency to regulate the two entities "ill-advised."

http://www.realdemocracy.com/trainrek.htm
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« Reply #226 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:32PM »

Nah.  Tiller is probably a wet puppy.  I don't think he was even old enough to be called up for Iraq or Afghanistan if we had a draft. :-P

The ones I am more concerned about are people who should know better but let their prejudices control their opinions.
Yeah the lefties here have no prejudices.  Totally non partisan.  Yeah, RIGHT.
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« Reply #227 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:37PM »

The lefties here have so famous friends;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYltWGBlwaE
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« Reply #228 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:50PM »

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/who-caused-the-economic-crisis/
The McCain-Palin campaign fired back with an ad laying blame on Democrats and Obama. Titled "Rein," it highlights McCain’s 2006 attempt to "rein in Fannie and Freddie." The ad accurately quotes the Washington Post as saying "Washington failed to rein in" the two government-sponsored entities, the Federal National Mortgage Association ("Fannie Mae") and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation ("Freddie Mac"), both of which ran into trouble by underwriting too many risky home mortgages to buyers who have been unable to repay them. The ad then blames Democrats for blocking McCain’s reforms. As evidence, it even offers a snippet of an interview in which former President Clinton agrees that "the responsibility that the Democrats have" might lie in resisting his own efforts to "tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." We’re then told that the crisis "didn’t have to happen."

It’s true that key Democrats opposed the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have established a single, independent regulatory body with jurisdiction over Fannie and Freddie – a move that the Government Accountability Office had recommended in a 2004 report. Current House Banking Committee chairman Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts opposed legislation to reorganize oversight in 2000 (when Clinton was still president), 2003 and 2004, saying of the 2000 legislation that concern about Fannie and Freddie was "overblown." Just last summer, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd called a Bush proposal for an independent agency to regulate the two entities "ill-advised."

http://www.realdemocracy.com/trainrek.htm

And everything listed in that report was from a McCain/Palin add, and every date listed was from a time in which Dodd and Frank were minoritiy members of committees controlled by Republicans, in a Congress controlled.......you love beating a dead horse, don't you.
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« Reply #229 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:50PM »

Ronkny,
Do not hurt yourself. He will never admit to the great.evonomy of the Reagan years after saved us from Carter, nor will he ever admit that during 7 years of GW Bush we had a statistical unemployment rate at zero. The market was sky high and everyone was making money until Barney Frank and Chris Dodd played the race card and forced the banks to make risky loans to people who could not pay them back with the Community Reinvestment act.
They've been fooled by their handlers. They are very effective brain washers.  The extent to which they believe in their cause is truly amazing.  Frank and Dodd will be admitted to the Democrat Hall of Fame (or Shame).
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« Reply #230 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:51PM »

And everything listed in that report was from a McCain/Palin add, and every date listed was from a time in which Dodd and Frank were minoritiy members of committees controlled by Republicans, in a Congress controlled.......you love beating a dead horse, don't you.
Report?  Fact check?  That was used in the McCain Palin ad? What ad(d)? Or the other link? 
So Frank and Dodd weren't even in the room?
and this;
"In 2003, the Bush administration proposed changes to move governmental supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury. Spearheaded by Representative Barney Frank, the proposal was defeated. Frank said, "Theses two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Max -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we see in terms of affordable housing."
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« Reply #231 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:58PM »

The very first line of your reference says " MCCain/ Palin fired back with an ad."  Were Dodd and Frank in the room? Probably, but, except for the main body of the Senate, where we now have proof that 40 is a majority, no minority can pass, or keep from passing, anything. They may have agreed with what was done, but it was done by Republicans. Damn those liberally biased facts!!
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« Reply #232 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:58PM »

Probably, but, except for in the main body of the Senate, where we now have proof that 40 is a majority, no minority can pass anything. They may have agreed with what was done, but it was done by Republicans. Damn those liberally biased facts!!
"In 2003, the Bush administration proposed changes to move governmental supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury. Spearheaded by Representative Barney Frank, the proposal was defeated. Frank said, "Theses two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Max -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we see in terms of affordable housing."

And this never happened?
"In 2004, a congressional hearing was held pursuant to charges by the Director of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) regarding irregularities at Fannie Mae and regarding CEO Franklin Raines. Raines, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were vigorously defended by the ranking member of the Financial Services Committee, Barney Frank and other Democrats on the committee. Representative Shays and other Republicans on the committee expressed deep concerns about Fannie Mae's severe lack of capital, double standards, hiring too many lobbyists, paying lobbyists not to work against it, and the clear and present danger of a financial collapse.

Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines subsequently stepped down because of accounting irregularities at Fannie Mae, which paid him $90 million in the process. In 2006, the OFHEO announced a suit against Raines to recover $50 million in payments made to him based on overstated earnings. Raines is now advising Barack Obama in his campaign for president.

In 2005, the Bush administration made further attempts to reign-in the risky buying and lending practices of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which were knocked down by the Democrats in Congress. Senate Republicans introduced legislation to do the same, but all their efforts, including measures introduced by Senator John McCain, were defeated by Senate Democrats lead by Senators Chris Dodd and Chuck Schumer. The proposed legislation was blocked from a full Senate vote.

As Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, Barney Frank sits at the center of power. Frank knew that his defense of the failed mortgage system was catching up with him, so he steered a major housing relief bill of 2008, which aimed to protect thousands of homeowners from foreclosure by falling back on FHA to substantially increase its insurance of home loans, including 2,3 and 4 unit dwellings. The increase in insured loans allows homeowners to re-finance bad loans or to purchase new homes if they had lost their homes to foreclosure.

Frank was at the forefront of House approval of the $700 billion taxpayer bailout of the financial train wreck that he substantially engineered. Adding insult to injury, Speaker Nancy Pelosi fraudulently pointed the finger at President Bush's failed economic policies for causing the meltdown. Many House Republicans rejected the bailout because Democrats added 100 pages and demanded the inclusion of such things as giving $20 billion to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) The same organization that intimidated lending institutions into making home loans to those who could not afford them. The Senate then added over 300 pages and $billions in pork for congressional re-elections, and passed the bailout, which was approved by the House and signed by President Bush on October 3, 2008.

After the House passed the final bailout package, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her cohorts took credit for the rescue, heaping praise upon Barney Frank as the leader of the rescue, and upon their presidential candidate Barack Obama for his direction and support. Rather than a rescue, the taxpayer fraud was, in effect, a bailout of Barney Frank and others responsible for the mess."

Maybe it was a different Barney Frank?  :/
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« Reply #233 on: Apr 01, 2012, 09:11PM »

The very first line of your reference says " MCCain/ Palin fired back with an ad."  Were Dodd and Frank in the room? Probably, but, except for the main body of the Senate, where we now have proof that 40 is a majority, no minority can pass, or keep from passing, anything. They may have agreed with what was done, but it was done by Republicans. Damn those liberally biased facts!!
You added stuff after I quoted you so Your beef is with the Repubs when the Dems were the impetus.   Don't know
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« Reply #234 on: Apr 02, 2012, 04:56AM »

Once again, I let myself get side tracked by right wing spin and mis-information, and I know enough to watch out for it. It's no wonder so many in America fall for it.

Ok, I'll grant you your premise that Dodd and Frank are politicians, and therefore, largely pieces of scatological debris. Fannie and Freddie, whom Newt Gingrich probably had a far more influential role in the actual operations of, were a minior symptom of what happened to our economy. Blaming Fannie and Freddie for what happened in 2008 is akin to a doctor blaming the death of a patiient on the fact he had a cough while the doc neglected to treat the patient's tuberculosis which actually killed him. If Fannie and Freddie were the totality of the financial problem that nearly destroyed our economy, it would not have had much more effect than a speed bump in a residential neighborhood.  It was Reagan's stopping the enforcement of the Sherman Act and beginning the dismantlement of Glass-Steagal, finished by Clinton/Gingrich/ Gramm which led directly to TBTF and the CDS debacles which caused the meltdown. The right needs their bogeymen to deflect attention from their mismanagement in service to the >.1%, so go ahead and take it out on Frank and Dodd. They were minor players in the disaster.


So the Koch brothers are hunting you? For what purpose?  How do they harm you?


Only to the degree I am a member of the 99% of people in this country they wish to exploit. Truth be told, on a personal level, any harm they cause to me is peripheral and atmospheric. But, I'm not a rightie. I know it isn't just about me. It's about all of us as a society, and the actions of the Kochs, and many otheres of their ilk, are highly detrimental to our society as a whole, and deadly to certain individuals effected by their excesses.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/163954/kochs-and-cancer-small-town
http://www.onepennysheet.com/2012/03/how-the-kochs-are-fracking-america/

Just a quick sample. And that doesn't begin to discuss all the behind the scenes activities they undertake to subvert the democratic processes in this country. They are poster children for the absolute worst that America has to offer the world. I am thankful the internet is finally dragging them out from behind the curtain an exposing them to light. Maybe, like with  toxic bacteria, sunlight will prove to be an effective disinfectant.
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« Reply #235 on: Apr 02, 2012, 04:59AM »

At one time Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were an agency to allow banks to expand their available mortgage money.  My mortgage is held by Fannie Mae although it was originally issued by Chase Bank and that's who I pay for it.  By guaranteeing mortgages Fannie and Freddy allowed banks to lend to people like you and me; who might not have been able to afford a mortgage or might have had to buy a smaller house.

In 2003 the Bush Administration wanted to gut Freddy and Fannie, probably because they were a potential liability that would impede their intent to eliminate taxes on the Rich.  Dodd and Frank were particularly interested in harassing a Dentist in Washington, though Evil
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« Reply #236 on: Apr 02, 2012, 05:19AM »

So the Koch brothers are hunting you? For what purpose?  How do they harm you?
Once again, I let myself get side tracked by right wing spin and mis-information, and I know enough to watch out for it. It's no wonder so many in America fall for it.

Only to the degree I am a member of the 99% of people in this country they wish to exploit. Truth be told, on a personal level, any harm they cause to me is peripheral and atmospheric. But, I'm not a rightie. I know it isn't just about me. It's about all of us as a society, and the actions of the Kochs, and many otheres of their ilk, are highly detrimental to our society as a whole, and deadly to certain individuals effected by their excesses.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/163954/kochs-and-cancer-small-town
http://www.onepennysheet.com/2012/03/how-the-kochs-are-fracking-america/

Just a quick sample. And that doesn't begin to discuss all the behind the scenes activities they undertake to subvert the democratic processes in this country. They are poster children for the absolute worst that America has to offer the world. I am thankful the internet is finally dragging them out from behind the curtain an exposing them to light. Maybe, like with  toxic bacteria, sunlight will prove to be an effective disinfectant.

Yup, and the selective, self-serving myopia of Wingnuts is striking--the sudden incapacity to recognize serious, genuine, widespread, obvious harm, while on the other hand fixating on "harm" to their delicate personal sentiments in their own imaginations caused by gay marriage, when no one but those directly involved in gay marriages would ever notice any difference in their lives, as if it would bring about the end of civilization.
 
Yet we insist upon perpetually giving them the spotlight so they have an unearned voice, when we have plenty of rational adults on both sides who could actually be productive if not for the brain wreckage strewn all over the place, making it impossible to function. I can understand why the media does it, but it seems only unconscientious or undisciplined standard issue citizens would do it very often ... seems not to be the case though, for some reason. I don't really understand what people find so compelling about pride in vapidity, other than a vulgar freak show kind of fascination in seeing adults act like five-year-olds, I suppose. But you'd think that, like being mesmerized by fire, people would stop staring once they've been burned. That doesn't seem to be the case either. We're in a burning house, and most of us still don't seem to be able to tear themselves away from the flames.
 
Until we can by and large grow out of this compulsion, we get what we ask for--what we deserve, I suppose.
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« Reply #237 on: Apr 02, 2012, 05:31AM »

...
 
Until we can by and large grow out of this compulsion, we get what we ask for--what we deserve, I suppose.

And a major reason why discussions like this thread are confined to one section of the Forum ;-)
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« Reply #238 on: Apr 02, 2012, 05:40AM »

And a major reason why discussions like this thread are confined to one section of the Forum ;-)

Yeah, and once I was learned about what "child board" actually means I thought it was a good idear. But the real problem isn't this forum, of course, it's the fact that this same pattern is also descriptive of the "Public Square" in the US.
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« Reply #239 on: Apr 02, 2012, 09:17AM »

Once again, I let myself get side tracked by right wing spin and mis-information, and I know enough to watch out for it. It's no wonder so many in America fall for it.

Ok, I'll grant you your premise that Dodd and Frank are politicians, and therefore, largely pieces of scatological debris. Fannie and Freddie, whom Newt Gingrich probably had a far more influential role in the actual operations of, were a minior symptom of what happened to our economy. Blaming Fannie and Freddie for what happened in 2008 is akin to a doctor blaming the death of a patiient on the fact he had a cough while the doc neglected to treat the patient's tuberculosis which actually killed him. If Fannie and Freddie were the totality of the financial problem that nearly destroyed our economy, it would not have had much more effect than a speed bump in a residential neighborhood.  It was Reagan's stopping the enforcement of the Sherman Act and beginning the dismantlement of Glass-Steagal, finished by Clinton/Gingrich/ Gramm which led directly to TBTF and the CDS debacles which caused the meltdown. The right needs their bogeymen to deflect attention from their mismanagement in service to the >.1%, so go ahead and take it out on Frank and Dodd. They were minor players in the disaster.

Only to the degree I am a member of the 99% of people in this country they wish to exploit. Truth be told, on a personal level, any harm they cause to me is peripheral and atmospheric. But, I'm not a rightie. I know it isn't just about me. It's about all of us as a society, and the actions of the Kochs, and many otheres of their ilk, are highly detrimental to our society as a whole, and deadly to certain individuals effected by their excesses.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/163954/kochs-and-cancer-small-town
http://www.onepennysheet.com/2012/03/how-the-kochs-are-fracking-america/

Just a quick sample. And that doesn't begin to discuss all the behind the scenes activities they undertake to subvert the democratic processes in this country. They are poster children for the absolute worst that America has to offer the world. I am thankful the internet is finally dragging them out from behind the curtain an exposing them to light. Maybe, like with  toxic bacteria, sunlight will prove to be an effective disinfectant.
Do you not realize how you've fallen for the left wing spin?  They are much better at it than the right wing spin machine.  That's one thing the left is really good at. 
I didn't blame Fannie and Freddie, solely, for what happened in 2008.  Although that was a part of the crash.
Blame Reagan. Not the dem congress.  Oh boy.
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