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[spangy]

Hi,
I picked up a Selmer Paris 23 Special of ebay from a goodwill. The serial # is 686. The horn was in pretty rough shape but I really loved the way it sounds. I took it to Oberloh and they did a wonderful job cleaning it up. I'm sure I'll never recoup what I spent but I just felt this one needed to be saved.
Anyway I've searched the forum and can't find out much. Maybe its from the early '50's from what I can find? Bore is about .500 I think since my Olds Studio dual .485/.5oo larger tube fits. My .491 2b is to small. I don't have a caliper.
It has the S shaped brace with a folded over Kranz. Nice engraving on the bell. Very pretty horn. That S shaped brace is very comfy to hold.
Its pretty dark and has a lot of core, more than my 2b. It can brighten up when pushed, but not as much as my mid 60's 6h. It has its own sound and I'm really enjoying it.
Does any one have specifics on these horns? Is this the first Selmer trombone model? It seems the k-mod and all models after this switch to the king style brace.
Thanks,
Ed

[Stewbones43]

Hi, I used to have a similar/same Selmer 23 Special from the same sort of era. Mine was number 674. It is very difficult to get information about Selmer trombones but a chance encounter with the Bach rep at the local store one day was lucky. He went back to the office and contacted Selmer Paris who were able to say that it was from the early 1950s-that's as close as we can get!!!
I am a little surprised at you bore estimation as I found mine to be smaller than .500in and found it to be closer to the  contemporary British size of .487in (like B&H/Besson). Mine had the same "S" shaped bell brace and the small Krantz. It was a heavy trombone and had a unique sound which I couldn't get to match with anything else, so now it is gone.
They were not common and are very undervalued.
These were not the first Selmer trombones as this link will show; http://www.selmer.fr/  Not much detail but pictures if you scroll onto the 1936 page and go to page 2 of the catalogue.

Cheers

Stewbones

PS dj is a Selmer type Francophile.

[lingon]

...Not much detail but pictures if you scroll onto the 1936 page and go to page 2 of the catalogue...

Thanks Stew, interesting page. Does the model 362 remind us of B&H Artist's Perfected or the older Hawkes model, with the long bell? If so, are those English instruments copies of French models or the other way around?

[Stewbones43]

John, I am not quite old enough to be able to answer your question, but I do know that many of the trombones which were used by brass bands in the first half of the 20th century were very similar and they were usually handed down to the youth bands and schools which is where I came into contact with them in the 1950s. The makers were Boosey, Besson, Highams, Hawkes and Salvation Army mostly, with some Philpot, Gisbourne from the UK and French Besson, Couesnon, Courtois, Selmer and Thibouville-Lamy from France. They all seemed to be the same size bore and bell-.460in and 6in or 6.5in bells and the proportions were very similar.
 I think the bell was fractionally longer because the tuning slide bow was shorter because of the small bell.

Cheers

Stewbones

[lingon]

Thanks Stew,

...I am not quite old enough to be able to answer your question...

Looking at the Selmer page you pointed to there seems to be two different styles. As you mentioned the B&H, Besson et al with the longer bell and the other one with more modern proportions, Eb at 3rd pos that is. For example the Salvation Army Triumphonic seems to be like the latter. One question is if those long belled ones are near cousins to the older sackbutts, ala transition models from old to modern? Anyway, those old instruments I have seen has been well built and very good sounding if liking some slightly different sounds than what we are used to now.

[Slod]

I own One, but don't remember the specifics (6 hours away). Has S brace and is actually a "special" the K-mods came later. DJ knows a lot about them. More than I. I'll post the forum links here.

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,58867.0.html
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,49529.0.html
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,48403.0.html
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,46202.0.html
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,46259.0.html
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,39347.0.html
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,60887.0.html

There are probably more posts. Just search "Selmer Paris Super" on the forum search.

[spangy]

Well I finally bought a caliper and it seems to be about .490. I just bought a k-mod 23 of ebay. I'm a little curious what the difference is besides the brace. I've been playing the horn quite a bit. The only small complaint I have is the the narrow slide takes a little get used to. I was at a local jam session and we played Samba de Orfeu. The low b was a real arm stretcher.