Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1092575 Posts in 72179 Topics- by 19440 Members - Latest Member: drater421
Jump to:  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Berkeley Trombone?  (Read 7403 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
tombone21
*
Offline Offline

Location: NYC
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 532

View Profile
« on: Mar 09, 2012, 08:04PM »

I found this on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Berkeley-Pro-CR-Rotary-Valve-Bb-F-Tenor-Trombone-/270929537142?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item3f14a8a876#ht_9296wt_802
Ever heard of this brand? Is it quality?
Logged
deanmccarty

*
Offline Offline

Location: Texas
Joined: Feb 19, 2010
Posts: 716

View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: Mar 09, 2012, 08:31PM »

Let me put it this way... There are great horns... Then there are good horns... Then, ok horns... Then student line horns... Then bad horns... Then lamps... Then whale dung.... Then... Then, there are Berkeley trombones.  They are the lowest of the garbage horns that are on the market.  Evil
Logged

Dean McCarty <><
freelance trombonist, Houston area
2 Corinthians 13:14
deanmccarty

*
Offline Offline

Location: Texas
Joined: Feb 19, 2010
Posts: 716

View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: Mar 09, 2012, 08:35PM »

Oh,and that Kanstul CR valve looks a lot like an axial flow valve.  Hey... This thing is in writing... The Kanstul folks should have them shut down for using their name!
Logged

Dean McCarty <><
freelance trombonist, Houston area
2 Corinthians 13:14
tombone21
*
Offline Offline

Location: NYC
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 532

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Mar 09, 2012, 08:37PM »

Yeah that's why i posted this: I didn't know whether or not this valve was legit or not. Bad dog.  No Biscuits.
Logged
JSBassTrb

*
Offline Offline

Location: USA
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Posts: 1579

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Mar 09, 2012, 09:29PM »

Total POS
Logged
octavposaune

*
Offline Offline

Location: Seattle area
Joined: Jan 1, 2009
Posts: 3008

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Mar 09, 2012, 09:34PM »

Notice the links above the listing show different horns than the advertised horns.

I am going to send this link to Kanstul Right now, the Berkeley add cut and pasted information from descriptions of various makers.

Benn
Logged
Jox

*
Offline Offline

Location: Gainesville, Florida
Joined: Oct 24, 2004
Posts: 1692

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Mar 09, 2012, 10:14PM »

But the 2nd video really sells them
Logged

Xavier Gonzalez
BME- Stetson University
MM- University of Florida
Bach 50BG Greenhoe- Doug Elliot MB109 J-8
Selmer Bolero- Conn Goldtone
HouBassTrombone

*
Offline Offline

Location: Houston, TX
Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Posts: 2700
"Just play because you love to."


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Mar 09, 2012, 10:51PM »

Haha Jox! I was thinking the same thing!
Logged

Why am I not practicing?????
lingon

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 919

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Mar 10, 2012, 03:54AM »

...I found this on eBay:...
Hehe, funny description "...large bore tenor trombone was developed for players who wanted a lighter, centered, soloist trombone with fast response..." Bigger = lighter.  Idea!
Logged

John Lingesjo
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51538
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Mar 10, 2012, 04:52AM »

Let me put it this way... There are great horns... Then there are good horns... Then, ok horns... Then student line horns... Then bad horns... Then lamps... Then whale dung.... Then... Then, there are Berkeley trombones.  They are the lowest of the garbage horns that are on the market.  Evil

Gee, Dean.  Don't hold back :-P

What if I was thinking of selling my King 3B or Yamaha 891 to buy one of them? Evil
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
lingon

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 919

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Mar 10, 2012, 05:36AM »

...What if I was thinking of selling my King 3B or Yamaha 891 to buy one of them? Evil...
Absolutely Bruce and you must tell all of us all about that great new instrument.  Evil
Logged

John Lingesjo
Euphanasia

*
Offline Offline

Location: Moses Lake, WA
Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 5918

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Mar 10, 2012, 06:20AM »

Let me tell you what I really hate about Hyundais. Of course, I've never driven one, but I think that makes my position even stronger.  Yeah, RIGHT.

I play a Berkeley independent bass. It's a good horn with an excellent sound and the valves and linkages have been reliable. Placing it below "lamp" status? That's thoroughly ridiculous, wildly exaggerated, and clearly motivated by some ulterior motive other than an honest evaluation of the horn.

Would I buy the horn in the link? No. I don't know enough about Chinese axial-flow valves and even the name-brand axials are prone to problems if not manufactured, set up and maintained to utter perfection. If you want a Berkeley, go with a standard rotor.
Logged
lingon

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 919

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Mar 10, 2012, 07:59AM »

...I play a Berkeley independent bass. It's a good horn with an excellent sound and the valves and linkages have been reliable...
And that is how a good instrument works irrespective of origin. Many of the Chinese made are very good, even better now than a couple of years ago. Anyway, some time ago I did buy a Berkley alto valve trombone that was totally unplayable when I got it. Because I live on the other side of the big water it was not a real alternative to return it as the cost would have been to high. However, there were a lot of leaks, 2nd valve too flat and intonation not the best. After a lot of work it is playable, and the case is great  Good!. So, and that is true for all instruments even the so called 'real' brands, try before you buy and you may get a real bargain. I have a couple of other Chinese made instruments that are really good so this one was the exception for me.

BTW, Hyundai cars are fine. I have never tried one but the color is nice. :)
Logged

John Lingesjo
deanmccarty

*
Offline Offline

Location: Texas
Joined: Feb 19, 2010
Posts: 716

View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: Mar 10, 2012, 08:49AM »

I have personal experience with these horns... I wouldn't waste electricity with them.
Logged

Dean McCarty <><
freelance trombonist, Houston area
2 Corinthians 13:14
arynearson
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 1, 2011
Posts: 80

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Mar 10, 2012, 10:01AM »


Hm. I've had one for over a year now (different brand name on the bell, but obviously the same horn) and have no major problems. The linkage rod mysteriously broke out of the blue a few months ago, but I had a spare from a trashed horn that works just fine. There was a slight leak at one of the joints in the attachment tubing, a quick dab of solder sealed it right up. Other than those minor 2 minute fixes, it's been a workhorse for me.

It's been my main axe for my main gig playing 1st in a community symphony, and I've used it in a when asked to sub in another orchestra on bass bone. (and a recent sub gig bass bone in a big band)

Not sure about this one, but mine even came with 3 leadpipes.

Sure, it's not a Edwards, but for an amateur musician on a budget, it's an absolutely fantastic buy IMO. (But maybe I got a good one, since apparently the consensus is that these are junk.)

I think rather than dismissing them as junk altogether, based on personal experience and what I've read here it would be more appropriate to say that if you're prepared for some minor fixes, or have a good relationship with a tech that will work with you, there's nothing wrong with these horns if you can't afford the big guns.



Logged
ParLawGod
The Man Who Doesn't Need a Title
*
Offline Offline

Location: Wisconsin, United States
Joined: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 3560

View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: Mar 10, 2012, 10:59AM »

On TubeNet, I've read numerous reports of the quality of (some) Chinese-built brass instruments drastically improving over the last few years. Mainly due to design tweaks and more consistent manufacturing. It's probably not fair for us to compare instruments from 5-6 years ago to the ones coming out of the factory now. May be the same factory/model/etc. but we could still be comparing apples to oranges here. Dean very well could have played one that wasn't worthy of a lamp, and someone recently could have played a very respectable instrument. Experiences WILL differ with these instruments. I've owned two Chinese altos - one from the 2004-2006 range, and one made in 2011. Both were good instruments, but the newer alto was hands down the better instrument. Same design, played different.

Would probably be best to determine if anyone has played this exact model recently (my opinion).
Logged
lingon

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 919

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: Mar 10, 2012, 11:05AM »

...the consensus is that these are junk...
Not exactly, but instead that some are good and some bad. Like many other brands too...
Logged

John Lingesjo
daveyboy37

*
Offline Offline

Location: New Jersey, USA
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 4415

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Mar 10, 2012, 11:16AM »

Lets not forget for a minute that pretty much all of the "new" horns developed recently are based on older designs. This is just how most famous composers first spent years studying the works of their predecessors. There is nothing wrong with using a previous design as a starting point for a new design.

However, in most cases these horns coming from east Asia are not designs inspired by other instruments. They instead are pretty close to outright copies. This of course doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad, it just means that you have to really TRY ONE OUT before sinking money into it. Also there are tons of PROVEN USED trombones that can be had, which are of superior build quality, and also are nice and broken in.

I'd usually say go used before you go for a Berkeley trombone. If a horn is 10-20 years old and still in good shape, if you take care of it the horn should last you a long time. The East Asian horns have not been around for nearly that long, and over time they may have serious issues, such as chrome plating lifting, red rot, lacquer flaking, etc. These are problems that Yamaha once had, even though the build quality was great.
Logged

David Sullivan
Bass Trombone - Livingston Symphony Orchestra
Horns: Bach 39, King 3B, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612RII
MPCS: Faxx 7C, Hammond 11ML, Laskey 59MD, Laskey 85MD.
lingon

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 919

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: Mar 10, 2012, 12:02PM »

...The East Asian horns have not been around for nearly that long, and over time they may have serious issues, such as chrome plating lifting, red rot, lacquer flaking, etc. These are problems that Yamaha once had, even though the build quality was great...
Maybe it is easier for the definitions if we talk about mainland Chinese about these instruments. East Asian horns are also Yamaha which I think no one dislikes because they are Asian made today, and also Taiwanese made Jupiter which I think also has a better reputation than mainland Chinese ones, today that is.

Anyway, I have used my, made by Jinbao, bass trombone for soon to be 5 years as an instrument I earn my living with. It is still working very well, nothing has fallen apart or off the horn. No leaks. Slide was nice from day 1 etc. However, it will be interesting to see if it still works five or ten years from now. I think so based on how it has behaved so far.

So try before you buy and you may find a gem.
Logged

John Lingesjo
SilverBone
Put the Cool in "Coulisse!"

*
Offline Offline

Location: Portland, OR
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3846

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Mar 10, 2012, 06:37PM »

I have personal experience with these horns... I wouldn't waste electricity with them.

Thus arises a question:  If there were a trombone good enough to be worth wasting electricity on, where would you plug it in?   Evil
Logged

-Howard

The nastiest fellow I've known
Smashed his trombone and ruined its tone.
There's a simple excuse
For his slush pump abuse:
He was born to be bad to the bone.
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: