Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1092463 Posts in 72163 Topics- by 19436 Members - Latest Member: Pablo3A
Jump to:  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: High Range on Trombone  (Read 15260 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Practiceathome
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Posts: 152

View Profile
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2012, 12:42PM »

General question to all who want to answer: What about the argument that building low range improves high range?  I only paid lip service to my low range when I was younger, but since I have started to really put in some quality time on it (low range) I find that not only is my high range improving, the quality of sound in higher registers is also more focused and clear.

I always noticed over the years that the bass trombone players I would encounter in my playing would almost without exception have the best high range.  Coincidence?
Logged
Doug Elliott
Lord of the Rims

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 6794

View Profile
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2012, 01:01PM »

Playing low range correctly for your own face and embouchure type  will help high range.  However, it's often easier to play low incorrectly, so there is no universal answer to that question.
Logged

www.DougElliottMouthpieces.com
XT LexanN104,C+,D2, Williams 6, K&H Slokar alto, K&H Slokar Solo .547 open wrap
vegasbound
There are 2 types of trombone player....Urbie & everyone else!

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 2, 2008
Posts: 2619
"Get your tee shirt from http://www.derekwatkins.co"


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2012, 01:33PM »



Maggio !!!
Logged

'There will never come a day when I don't need to practice'- JJ Johnson
redbackjam
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 87

View Profile
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2012, 01:56PM »

That being said, if I focused a bit more on my pedal notes and a bit less on my high notes (still practicing them daily but spending more time on my low range), my high range will increase?
Logged
Practiceathome
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Posts: 152

View Profile
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2012, 02:18PM »

As much as I would like to answer your question with a "yes, definitely" I feel more comfortable letting those who teach professionally answering that question.  I will say every teacher I ever had emphasized working on pedals to "build your foundation" but as Doug pointed out it is only really effective if you are doing it correctly.  Have you asked your teacher for advice and if so, what was the answer?
Logged
redbackjam
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 87

View Profile
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2012, 02:57PM »

Actually, my private instructor only comes to my neighborhood on thursdays, and due to school and sports, I wasn't able to find an open time with the time slots he had, so for about the past 2 months I haven't had any lessons. Sports just ended so I'm hoping to meet with him by next week and I will definently ask him then. However, other than that, I don't know too much about range. My friend said that he got his range to a comfortable C and is working on his D (the super high one) and he got it in a couple of months. Now that I think about it, he also has very good pedal notes (he could go to about trigger 4th or 5th position). This lower range might be the key I guess!
Logged
Practiceathome
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Posts: 152

View Profile
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2012, 03:10PM »

Guys like Doug, BGutman, among others, have more experience teaching so I would trust their judgment.  As a non-teacher I will go out on a limb and say low range will help your high range if you do it correctly.  An exercise that I spend a lot of time working on is slurring from pedal B flat, up an octave and then slurring down to the pedal again, all without removing the mouthpiece.  It develops the muscles not to mention good air flow.  It also makes it hard to cheat by using embouchure shifting, which can be used to pop some nice pedals, but it is better to learn without the shift if you really want to develop.  Sure lots of pros use embouchure shifts, but I promise you that they developed the fundamentals first.  George Roberts is one example.  Terry Cravens another.

Would a real teacher care to answer his question?
Logged
mellotbone

*
Offline Offline

Location: Rhode Island
Joined: Apr 23, 2006
Posts: 338

View Profile
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2012, 05:22PM »

Brad Edwards Lip Slurs is great for high AND low registers.

It includes leaps to and from the high register and trigger and pedal registers so you learn to play without (or with minimal) shifting. I have found this book very benficial in building real usuable high and low range.

I play exercises from it every day.
Logged
redbackjam
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 87

View Profile
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2012, 09:40PM »

On that note, are there any other books you would recommend that would help improve my range? All I really have is the Arbans book and not much else... Thanks!
I'll definently look into Brad Edwards Lip Slurs!
Logged
Practiceathome
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Posts: 152

View Profile
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2012, 12:28AM »

Pretty hard to go wrong with Arbans.  It has been around forever for a reason.
Just practice and practice some more.  When you are done with that pick up your horn and practice.
While you are at it, practice the slurring section in Arbans.
Logged
vegasbound
There are 2 types of trombone player....Urbie & everyone else!

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 2, 2008
Posts: 2619
"Get your tee shirt from http://www.derekwatkins.co"


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2012, 01:25AM »



I will say it again...... Maggio !!


Logged

'There will never come a day when I don't need to practice'- JJ Johnson
Chris Fidler

*
Offline Offline

Location: UK
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 2268

View Profile
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2012, 01:51AM »

MAGGIO.......  Good! Clever
Logged

The wise musicians are those who play what they can master.
Duke Ellington
Geezerhorn

*
Offline Offline

Location: PA
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 5640
"Lego My Trombone"


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2012, 05:06AM »

MAGGIO.......  Good! Clever

I'm tempted to buy a copy of that book.  It's offered on Amazon right now for $28.  I always like to thumb through a book before I buy it, but of course that is impossible when buying online.  All the information available in the Amazon advertisement is that it is a book for brass players.  How is it formatted?  Are there multiple clefs used?  Is there a base clef written out for low brass, or will I have to transpose?

Thanks,
Charles
Logged
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 12462

View Profile
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2012, 06:50AM »

If you go here:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/

and scroll down to the dedicated forums, you'll find a list of different systems trumpet players talk about (including Reinhard, Caruso, etc.)

There isn't a Maggio forum but IIRC Claude Gordon was one of his students.

Logged

Tim Richardson
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51533
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2012, 08:54AM »

Low range and high range:

Practicing low range will not automatically increase your upper range.  You can't practice endless pedal Bbs and expect to suddenly have a high C. 

That said, practicing low notes in conjunction with upper register practice will help both.  For a lot of the reasons stated above.

I often suggest that after you "poop out" working the upper register you follow it with a bunch of low note long tones (pedals if you got 'em) to relax the embouchure.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Practiceathome
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Posts: 152

View Profile
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2012, 09:09AM »

Low range and high range:

Practicing low range will not automatically increase your upper range.  You can't practice endless pedal Bbs and expect to suddenly have a high C. 

That said, practicing low notes in conjunction with upper register practice will help both.  For a lot of the reasons stated above.

I often suggest that after you "poop out" working the upper register you follow it with a bunch of low note long tones (pedals if you got 'em) to relax the embouchure.


"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to Gabby Johnson (Bruce Guttman?) for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particulary glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age."

OK, seriously folks.  I think he summed it up nicely.  Practice your highs and lows.  Practice your lip slurs and long tones.  BTW that classic quote comes to us from Blazing Saddles.
Logged
Geezerhorn

*
Offline Offline

Location: PA
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 5640
"Lego My Trombone"


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2012, 04:29AM »

If you go here:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/

and scroll down to the dedicated forums, you'll find a list of different systems trumpet players talk about (including Reinhard, Caruso, etc.)

There isn't a Maggio forum but IIRC Claude Gordon was one of his students.

Thanks.  It wasn't exactly the answer I was hoping for, however.  I've decided not to buy the book.  It occurred to me that if I could play everything in all the other books I have expertly well, then I wouldn't need it or 1/2 of the other books I already own.   :/ :/ :/

-Charles
Logged
vegasbound
There are 2 types of trombone player....Urbie & everyone else!

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 2, 2008
Posts: 2619
"Get your tee shirt from http://www.derekwatkins.co"


View Profile
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2012, 04:42AM »

Nit buying the book i a big mistake...Maggio (written is bass clef for bone) is used by many of the players you probably admire!  and it shows and get you to link your low range to your expanding upper register!

So buy a copy you will not regret it!
Logged

'There will never come a day when I don't need to practice'- JJ Johnson
Chris Fidler

*
Offline Offline

Location: UK
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
Posts: 2268

View Profile
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2012, 04:47AM »

Nit buying the book i a big mistake...Maggio (written is bass clef for bone) is used by many of the players you probably admire!  and it shows and get you to link your low range to your expanding upper register!

So buy a copy you will not regret it!

Yes I agree, I've used the Maggio for 25 years and it's helped me overcome lots of problems like teeth rebuild, Holiday chops, rebuild after illness etc  Clever Good!
Logged

The wise musicians are those who play what they can master.
Duke Ellington
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 12462

View Profile
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2012, 05:41AM »

Nit buying the book i a big mistake...Maggio (written is bass clef for bone) is used by many of the players you probably admire!  and it shows and get you to link your low range to your expanding upper register!

So buy a copy you will not regret it!

There are books of exercises and there are systems.

I did Remington for years.  Did I do it the way he taught it?  Dunno, never had a teacher listen to me.

I did Caruso Six Notes for a couple years.  Ditto, except from my more recent reading I'm pretty sure I didn't do it quite the way intended.

I went to a Brad Edwards workshop.  The way he demonstrated was NOT the way I would have played his exercises.  The differences were subtle, to be sure, but the way he slurred and moved airflow was noticably different from the way the page looked to my brain.

I took a lesson from Doug Elliott.  Same thing.  How the exercises are really supposed to go is not always obvious unless I'm shown by somebody who really knows.  The page alone did not tell me how he wanted them played. 

I suspect the same would be true if I bought the Maggio book.  Can you really do Maggio exercises while thinking Stamp, or Caruso while thinking Remington?     
Logged

Tim Richardson
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: