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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) The Evolution of the Pledge of Allegiance
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ddickerson

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« on: Mar 27, 2012, 01:05PM »

The original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8 issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's arrival in the Americas. The event was conceived and promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the magazine, as a campaign to instill the idea of American nationalism by selling flags to public schools and magazines to students.

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Students swearing the Pledge on Flag Day in 1899.

The Pledge was supposed to be quick and to the point.

The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

Here is the latest Pledge of Allegiance that will be approved:

I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, and to the Socialism for which it stands, one nation with no liberty or freedom for all.


 













« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2012, 10:59PM by ddickerson » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: Mar 27, 2012, 01:14PM »

... And you'd better pledge to that or we're gonna ship your sorry butt to Mexico! Evil Evil Evil
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 27, 2012, 01:21PM »

The Pledge wasn't always recited with had-over-heart. Some pre-1940 pics/videos of children reciting the pledge provide a rather 'chilling' visual.
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 27, 2012, 01:36PM »

They look like they're doing the Heil Hitler.
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 27, 2012, 01:54PM »

Mr. Dickerson,

Liberals do not believe in Socialism! They believe in freedom and liberty!

I do not know what planet you come from, but the last time I checked the definition of liberty was the luxury of having 1 President, 9 Justices, and 535 Members of Congress in alabaster clad buildings adorned with Grecian pillars in a city thousands of miles away making all the decisions for a nation of 309,000,000 people. That is only a ratio of 0.000000176 to 1!

I love the fact Democrats support giving us so many choices! As long as your choices are in reference to sexual behavior and if you should not have to show I.D. to vote, you will be fine! I am not sure about you, but I hate the burdons of having to think about what light bulbs I should have, how much salt I should eat, what my children should be taught in school, how much water my toliet should use, how big my house should be and how much I should be allowed to keep of what I earn through hardwork. I am glad there are people like Obama, Pelosi and Reid are there to make all these hard decisions for me. I would not be intelligent enough to make those on my own.

God Bless a nation like our where all private property can be regulated, banned or taxed. It is Obama's world, he just allows us to live in it!
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 27, 2012, 01:58PM »

*fixed in next post*
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 27, 2012, 02:18PM »

On a serious note, I do find it funny that we live in a nation where our politicians think we are not smart enough to know how much salt we should are smart enough to vote for them!

OK,

I give up, what the heck exactly are you saying??
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 27, 2012, 03:10PM »

OK,

I give up, what the heck exactly are you saying??


Sorry, I wrote it in haste!!!

Here you go-

On a serious note, I do find it funny that we live in a nation where our politicians think we are not smart enough to know how much salt we should eat but think we are smart enough to vote for our own leaders!
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 27, 2012, 05:38PM »

Here's an example of humor based upon the same basic mindset, only from the other side.
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 27, 2012, 07:23PM »

The Pledge wasn't always recited with had-over-heart. Some pre-1940 pics/videos of children reciting the pledge provide a rather 'chilling' visual.

Matter of fact the hand over heart was adopted as a reaction to the "Hitler Salute".

I reported a lot of this some time ago in another thread.  There were major revisions immediately, in 1923, in 1924, [I think] in 1942, and in 1954 (addition of "Under God" to contrast with the "Godless Commies").

I realized that Dickerson's post was intended as a joke; hence my reply.

I also know that Tiller's post was intended as a joke, but it sounded remarkably like the statements out of the Bush II White House (except with a Conservative slant). ;-)
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 27, 2012, 10:58PM »

Actually, the author of the pledge was a Socialist. I was just trying to complete the circle for him. :)
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 28, 2012, 04:34AM »

Actually, the author of the pledge was a Socialist. I was just trying to complete the circle for him. :)


So was the author of "The New Colossus", from which we have the inscription on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your homeless, your poor..."

Socialists can be as patriotic Americans as anybody else -- and a lot less selfish :-P
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 28, 2012, 05:11AM »

Socialists can be as patriotic Americans as anybody else -- and a lot less selfish :-P

It is easy to not be selfish when you are spending other people's money.   Good!


Thanks for also catching my humor in my first post on this thread.
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 28, 2012, 06:09AM »

It is easy to not be selfish when you are spending other people's money.   Good!


Thanks for also catching my humor in my first post on this thread.

What's going on in this country is akin to a story I heard somewhere recently. 100 Americans get together to have a big party. Together they make a huge pizza. They all contribute what they have to the effort. Then, one guy goes over, takes 80 slices for himself, and says "enjoy your dinner." It ain't "someone else's money". It's the GDP we all, from all levels of the socio-economic scale, create together and those at the top have legislated into their own pockets. And, the subject matter of Baron's link isn't really comedy so much as it is the sad, awful truth.
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 28, 2012, 06:25AM »

What's going on in this country is akin to a story I heard somewhere recently. 100 Americans get together to have a big party. Together they make a huge pizza. They all contribute what they have to the effort. Then, the Tax Man goes over, takes 80 slices for himself, and says "enjoy your dinner."

He then takes the 80 slices and gives them to their neighbors and says enjoy your Pizza! Oh yeah, remember me, and vote for me, when I run for Mayor. There will be more Pizza where that came from.

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« Reply #15 on: Mar 28, 2012, 06:27AM »

What's going on in this country is akin to a story I heard somewhere recently. 100 Americans get together to have a big party. Together they make a huge pizza. They all contribute what they have to the effort. Then, one guy goes over, takes 80 slices for himself, and says "enjoy your dinner." It ain't "someone else's money". It's the GDP we all, from all levels of the socio-economic scale, create together and those at the top have legislated into their own pockets. And, the subject matter of Baron's link isn't really comedy so much as it is the sad, awful truth.

Once you spot pizza there for the taking, what you take is yours. If the cooks fail to secure the pizza they make, that's their fault. Just make sure to employ the anti-redistribution ethic after you've taken all you can. Once you've done it once or twice you can then use your excess pizza to pay thugs to take more pizza for you, and you can even call that "creating jobs".
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 28, 2012, 06:44AM »

What's going on in this country is akin to a story I heard somewhere recently. 100 Americans get together to have a big party. Together they make a huge pizza. They all contribute what they have to the effort. Then, one guy goes over, takes 80 slices for himself, and says "enjoy your dinner." It ain't "someone else's money". It's the GDP we all, from all levels of the socio-economic scale, create together and those at the top have legislated into their own pockets. And, the subject matter of Baron's link isn't really comedy so much as it is the sad, awful truth.

Nice story, but if the big party was really analogous to our nation, 51 of the 100 people did not contribute anything for the pizza. They should be happy and feel blessed to get anything at all. Until everyone pays something, even if it is small, the people getting the free lunch have no room to complain.

Demanding you are entitled to an equal share when you contribute nothing is not the way to win support.
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« Reply #17 on: Mar 28, 2012, 06:46AM »

OMG  the old 51 % fallacy

it isn't true and that has been pointed out in these pp threads numerous times.
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 28, 2012, 06:54AM »

OMG  the old 51 % fallacy
 
it isn't true and that has been pointed out in these pp threads numerous times.

Yeah, sure, as if what's real or true matters to anyone. Stop whining and eat your pizza ... be happy there's some left for you, since it wasn't adequately guarded.
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« Reply #19 on: Mar 28, 2012, 07:00AM »

OMG  the old 51 % fallacy

it isn't true and that has been pointed out in these pp threads numerous times.
51% (or there abouts) DO NOT PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.  
The hell with the facts;
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/08/john-cornyn/john-cornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/05/senate-51-of-households.html
http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/Over-Half-Households-Paid-No-Income-Taxes-58240-1.html?ET=webcpa:e1444:84727a:&st=email&utm_source=editorial&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WebCPA_Daily_050411
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« Reply #20 on: Mar 28, 2012, 07:22AM »

Least one forget, the whole pizza operation will be shut down by the FDA & EPA.  Evil
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 28, 2012, 07:32AM »


The hell with the facts;


Exactly!
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« Reply #22 on: Mar 28, 2012, 08:00AM »

Least one forget, the whole pizza operation will be shut down by the FDA & EPA.  Evil


Unless they meet the nutritional requirements of Michelle Obama and Michael Bloomberg the pizza must be discarded at once. Our dear and glorious leaders again have once again saved us from ourselves!

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« Reply #23 on: Mar 28, 2012, 09:53AM »

51% (or there abouts) DO NOT PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.  
The hell with the facts;
Obviously we have more people now that are too broke to pay taxes.  I see this as an indictment of the nation's economy.  This has dire consequences; as our tax base shrinks, the stability of the nation shrinks with it.

What are you suggesting?  Should we all pay the same tax regardless of means to pay it?
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« Reply #24 on: Mar 28, 2012, 09:57AM »

Unless they meet the nutritional requirements of Michelle Obama and Michael Bloomberg the pizza must be discarded at once. Our dear and glorious leaders again have once again saved us from ourselves!


Under Reagan they could have used Ketchup for the sauce and leftover Cheez Whiz for the cheese Evil

Also, where does Michael Bloomberg come into this?  What has New York City got to do with a pizza party?
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« Reply #25 on: Mar 28, 2012, 10:01AM »

Also, where does Michael Bloomberg come into this?  What has New York City got to do with a pizza party?
New York City has been a leader in health regulations.  They were an early adopter of a smoking ban in restaurants.  And, they have banned the use of transfats in their food.
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« Reply #26 on: Mar 28, 2012, 10:07AM »

What are you suggesting?  Should we all pay the same tax regardless of means to pay it?

People don't have to eat every day, after all, and there's no constitutional "right" to eat at all.
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« Reply #27 on: Mar 28, 2012, 10:26AM »

Also, where does Michael Bloomberg come into this?  What has New York City got to do with a pizza party?

New York City has been a leader in health regulations.  They were an early adopter of a smoking ban in restaurants.  And, they have banned the use of transfats in their food.

Mr. Guttman, to add to John's comment. Mayor Bloomberg has also passed regulations on the use of salt and soft drinks. His regulations to take the freedom of New Yorkers has taken on such a zeal that by executive order, homeless shelters are no longer allowed to accept donations from churches, synagogues, mosques or the public. This is because the food can not be guaranteed to meet the city's nutritional standards. In Bloomberg's worldview, he would rather have the homeless starve than eat food that may have 1% more sodium than the daily recommended amount.

Here is the citation -

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/21/1076426/-New-York-City-bans-food-donations-to-homeless-shelters

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/21/nyc-ban-on-unhealthy-food-at-homeless-shelters-irks-volunteers/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/no_kugel_for_you_N4VuTrqavfOiApSHngxuMJ

This is what you get when you allow leaders to enforce on us what they think is best. The law of unintended consequences always peeks its head out. This is why I am a conservative and why I do not understand why many of you are liberals. Your hearts are in the right place, your methodology is flawed.
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« Reply #28 on: Mar 28, 2012, 10:45AM »

As you go and fulminate I should point out that Mayor Bloomberg has an R after his name.

I'm not going to give a blanket approval for overregulation, but look at it from the City's side.  If a volunteer organization gives food to a shelter and the people there get sick, you know who gets sued?  The City!  There is no level of responsibility to the organization.

Now I would agree that applying some severe rules may be a bit extreme.  As long as the food is edible it should be allowed.  Much better than Ketchup and Cheez Whiz for school lunches, which would have passed muster under Reagan.

Incidentally, people on Food Stamps are not allowed to buy things like snack foods and snack drinks.  A lunch of Doritos and Coke is not allowed under Food Stamps (even though they are both considered edible).  It could very well be that the rules for Food Stamps are applied for meals provided at Homeless Shelters.  In this case, some of the home made items may not comply with the law.
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« Reply #29 on: Mar 28, 2012, 11:04AM »


.  I see this as an indictment of the nation's economy. 


No, it is an indictment of how horribly out of balance the primary distribution of GDP is.
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« Reply #30 on: Mar 28, 2012, 12:31PM »

As you go and fulminate I should point out that Mayor Bloomberg has an R after his name.

He is now an (I) actaully. He was a lifelong Democrat before running for Mayor. He rode the Gulliani popularity to victory by switching to the Republican party. Shortly after being elected he switched to being an independant. He has been disloyal to the Democrats and Republicans. He has no honor.

I have respect for liberals around here. I may disagree with them but can respect their convictions to stay the course. I do not like liberals, but I hate dishonorable traitors more. Even if they turn on my opposition.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,284612,00.html
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« Reply #31 on: Apr 02, 2012, 11:20AM »

Nice story, but if the big party was really analogous to our nation, 51 of the 100 people did not contribute anything for the pizza. They should be happy and feel blessed to get anything at all. Until everyone pays something, even if it is small, the people getting the free lunch have no room to complain.

Demanding you are entitled to an equal share when you contribute nothing is not the way to win support.

I hate to see this kind of class warfare on this forum. As has been pointed out many times by our GOP presidential candidates, it's wrong to criticize the tax code and use that to turn one economic group against another.
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« Reply #32 on: Apr 02, 2012, 12:23PM »

I hate to see this kind of class warfare on this forum. As has been pointed out many times by our GOP presidential candidates, it's wrong to criticize the tax code and use that to turn one economic group against another.

LOL! :)
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« Reply #33 on: Apr 02, 2012, 12:38PM »

LOL! :)

I think he just woke up.
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« Reply #34 on: Apr 02, 2012, 01:57PM »

I hate to see this kind of class warfare on this forum. As has been pointed out many times by our GOP presidential candidates, it's wrong to criticize the tax code and use that to turn one economic group against another.

It's only considered class warfare when we fight back!
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« Reply #35 on: Apr 02, 2012, 02:04PM »

Nice story, but if the big party was really analogous to our nation, 51 of the 100 people did not contribute anything for the pizza. They should be happy and feel blessed to get anything at all. Until everyone pays something, even if it is small, the people getting the free lunch have no room to complain.

Demanding you are entitled to an equal share when you contribute nothing is not the way to win support.

Who said anything about an equal share? ANd, those 51%ers contribute there labor in low level/ non subsistence level jobs which don't pay enough for them to qual;ify to pay income taxes. A system which allows one person to take 80% of the product produced by 100% of the country is seriously FUBARED. And I guaran-dan tee you that 1 gut did not do anymore or better work than a majority of the rest of the folks at the party. He's just the one that's entitled!!
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« Reply #36 on: Apr 02, 2012, 03:33PM »

Obviously, I understand how this thing works. If working people stick up for their own interests and try to get the tax code changed to their advantage and complain that investors are getting a free ride, they're committing class warfare.

If investors do the exact same thing, and try to gain an advantage in the system, and complain that some working people get a free ride, that's conservatism, not class warfare.

Intelligent people will know that both groups are doing exactly the same thing, so the argument is specious.

Intelligent people also understand (assuming they're grade-school-age or older) that no one lives tax-free, even if their nominal federal tax liability is zero.

Luckily, we have only intelligent people on this forum, so no one will repeat the ridiculous 'class-warfare/politics-of envy' canard again, because I have successfully rebutted it.
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« Reply #37 on: Apr 02, 2012, 05:18PM »

Obviously, I understand how this thing works. If working people stick up for their own interests and try to get the tax code changed to their advantage and complain that investors are getting a free ride, they're committing class warfare.

If investors do the exact same thing, and try to gain an advantage in the system, and complain that some working people get a free ride, that's conservatism, not class warfare.

Intelligent people will know that both groups are doing exactly the same thing, so the argument is specious.

Intelligent people also understand (assuming they're grade-school-age or older) that no one lives tax-free, even if their nominal federal tax liability is zero.

Luckily, we have only intelligent people on this forum, so no one will repeat the ridiculous 'class-warfare/politics-of envy' canard again, because I have successfully rebutted it.
Yes others get a free ride but the left never talks about the freeloaders that don't pay any net FEDERAL INCOME TAX.  They only complain about the freeloaders on the top.
FEDERAL TAXES.  No one said tax free.  Only FEDERAL TAX free.  Intelligent people will read before speaking or typing.  You see the tax tables we have been discussing and the write offs the rich gReat, pertain to FEDERAL TAXES in this discussion.  No one has ever claimed that people pay absolutely no tax.
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« Reply #38 on: Apr 02, 2012, 05:44PM »

Yes others get a free ride but the left never talks about the freeloaders that don't pay any net FEDERAL INCOME TAX.  They only complain about the freeloaders on the top.
FEDERAL TAXES. 

The current tax rates were set under the Bush administration and remain unchanged. They were presented as a fair deal because they applied equally to all income groups. Now the GOP is attempting to renege on the deal and retain the high-income tax breaks while complaining about the low-income tax breaks. After reading your posts, I have no doubt that people are stupid enough to fall for it.

I think American citizens should have every right to criticize the tax code, either on principle or for their own benefit. Calling this 'class warfare', but only when it goes one direction but not the other, is just a way to sucker people. People are easy to sucker, as you amply demonstrate.

Quote
No one said tax free.  Only FEDERAL TAX free.  Intelligent people will read before speaking or typing.

You are absolutely, 100% dead wrong. Here's what I was responding to:

Quote
Nice story, but if the big party was really analogous to our nation, 51 of the 100 people did not contribute anything for the pizza. They should be happy and feel blessed to get anything at all. Until everyone pays something, even if it is small, the people getting the free lunch have no room to complain.

See any mention of federal taxes there? Like you said, intelligent people read before they type. I recommend it.
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« Reply #39 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:00PM »

The current tax rates were set under the Bush administration and remain unchanged. They were presented as a fair deal because they applied equally to all income groups. Now the GOP is attempting to renege on the deal and retain the high-income tax breaks while complaining about the low-income tax breaks. After reading your posts, I have no doubt that people are stupid enough to fall for it.

I think American citizens should have every right to criticize the tax code, either on principle or for their own benefit. Calling this 'class warfare', but only when it goes one direction but not the other, is just a way to sucker people. People are easy to sucker, as you amply demonstrate.

You are absolutely, 100% dead wrong. Here's what I was responding to:

See any mention of federal taxes there? Like you said, intelligent people read before they type. I recommend it.
The 51 out of 100 ratio pertains to FEDERAL TAXES.  I thought that was obvious.  Hello!!!
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« Reply #40 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:10PM »

The 51 out of 100 ratio pertains to FEDERAL TAXES.  I thought that was obvious.  Hello!!!

I know what the statistic means. The post I responded to (and quoted) did not say that. It strongly implied that people who have no federal income tax liability don't make any contribution to taxes, which isn't true, and which I pointed out.

Don't HELLO me, mister. I responded to exactly what was posted, and quoted the post in its entirety. You were wrong.
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« Reply #41 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:14PM »

I know what the statistic means. The post I responded to (and quoted) did not say that. It strongly implied that people who have no federal income tax liability don't make any contribution to taxes, which isn't true, and which I pointed out.

Don't HELLO me, mister. I responded to exactly what was posted, and quoted the post in its entirety. You were wrong.
Wrongo!!!  Ask the poster what he implied.  It's pretty obvious.  Everyone know we pay sales tax and ss tax and sometimes state tax and property tax and on and on.  None on the right have ever implied that people pay no tax just no FED tax.
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« Reply #42 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:18PM »

Wrongo!!!  Ask the poster what he implied.  It's pretty obvious.  Everyone know we pay sales tax and ss tax and sometimes state tax and property tax and on and on.  None on the right have ever implied that people pay no tax just no FED tax.

NOw you're wrong twice as much. Aren't you a businessman, technically? Were you aware that not all federal tax is assessed against income?

The post I responded to compared the 51% to people who eat a pizza without paying for any of it. That's obviously not a good analogy, and I pointed it out. He didn't mention federal taxes at all. You can waste five more pages refusing to admit you're wrong, as is your custom. That's why everyone likes you so much.
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« Reply #43 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:21PM »

Aren't you a businessman, technically? Were you aware that not all federal tax is assessed against income?

The post I responded to compared the 51% to people who eat a pizza without paying for any of it. That's obviously not a good analogy, and I pointed it out. He didn't mention federal taxes at all. You can waste five more pages refusing to admit you're wrong, as is your custom. That's why everyone likes you so much.
Federal income tax you dummy.
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« Reply #44 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:26PM »

Federal income tax you dummy.

Again, that's not what you posted. I responded to exactly what you wrote, to wit:
Quote
None on the right have ever implied that people pay no tax just no FED tax.

In the previous post that you objected to, I objected to exactly what the other poster wrote. I was right, on both occasions.

It turns out that I'm not a 'dummy' particularly, but if name-calling is all you have, have at it. I'm mopping up the floor with you, as always. Maybe you could retaliate by calling me a 'big fat dumb dumb dummyhead'. Then you could pull your usual crybaby crap and report yourself as TOU violation, which you always do when you lose.
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« Reply #45 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:28PM »

Again, that's not what you posted. I responded to exactly what you wrote. It the previous post that you objected to, I objected to exactly what the other poster wrote. I was right, on both occasions.

It turns out that I'm not a 'dummy' particularly, but if name-calling is all you have, have at it. I'm mopping up the floor with you, as always. Maybe you could retaliate by calling me a 'big fat dumb dumb dummyhead'. Then you could pull your usual crybaby crap and report yourself as TOU violation, which you always do when you lose.
OK genius (whoops another name.). :D  You need a nap.
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« Reply #46 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:34PM »

.
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« Reply #47 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:46PM »

What a nice sunny day today!  Good!
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« Reply #48 on: Apr 02, 2012, 06:57PM »

OK genius (whoops another name.). :D  You need a nap.

I must neeed a nap. I could swear you said 'no FED tax', not 'no fed income tax.'

There's no way to settle this.

Wait there is! Look at your post, you dumbass loser.

Oops, I called a name! Turn me in, crybaby.

Oops, another name! Turn me in again.
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« Reply #49 on: Apr 02, 2012, 11:06PM »

Obviously, I understand how this thing works. If working people stick up for their own interests and try to get the tax code changed to their advantage and complain that investors are getting a free ride, they're committing class warfare.


Committing 'class warfare' is trying to get everyone jealous and hating the 'rich'. The liberals spew hatred towards the 'rich' everyday. This president was elected to 'unite', but all he has done is ratcheted up the hateful vitriolic rhetoric towards the 'rich'. You guys buy into his rhetoric.  Don't know
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« Reply #50 on: Apr 02, 2012, 11:09PM »

Committing 'class warfare' is trying to get everyone jealous and hating the 'rich'. The liberals spew hatred towards the 'rich' everyday. This president was elected to 'unite', but all he has done is ratcheted up the hateful vitriolic rhetoric towards the 'rich'. You guys buy into his rhetoric.  Don't know

So when rich people complain about the tax code it's okay, but when the middle class do it it's 'class warfare'? Why can't we all express our opinions equally?

Can you quote a bunch of Obama's vitriol toward the rich? It seems to me that discussing the tax code doesn't quite constitute 'class warfare' unless you're saying, 'let's kill them and take their stuff!'
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